- cross-posted to:
- climatememes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- climatememes@lemmy.world
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Blessed are those that plant trees for the shade they will never see.
This mentality is why we are in the position we are today. If we all fail to try to build a better future today the next generation will suffer more than us and it will be our fault then.
Hum, that’s on the people that make the next gen. I cut my tubes when I was 20 exactly because I think the world is too shitty. My bloodline ends with me.
We’re more than just our genes. We have what we have not just because of our direct ancestors but the communities and societies before us.
…and that’s why. You say “we have what we have” as if we had a good life. If you’re rich good for you but my life suck
Things have been much worse and can be worse again. I didn’t have to choose which babies to drown and which to feed and instead have the internet and family planning options, so pretty good for three generations of progress by those metrics.
YOU, that is the righr word. So it is about you because there are ppl having to choose
True and their future families will have them to thank for making it through the hard times. Hopefully our actions can be so sober as to help too
Yeah blame the victims…
For making more victims? Yes. Fuck em. Being fucked over by the previous generation does not give you the right to fuck over the next generation.
The only victim of not having a retirement plan is yourself, surely. And for everything else… Genuinely what are we supposed to do? It’s impossible not to feel powerless today because despite all the efforts we go to, everything seems to be going more and more wrong with time. The far right is taking over and setting fire to the world for fuel. Alone no matter what noble actions I might take as an individual are meaningless, and even if by some miracle I manage, along with my fellow Brits, to vote in the progressive government of my dreams… Is that going to stop America’s swing to the right? Or China’s mega industrialization and carbon output?
Look, for the sake of me and the younger people here in the UK I won’t stop trying, you aren’t wrong that we shouldn’t, but I’m also sick of people blaming the crushed and despondent people of the world for their own situation.
The only victim of not having a retirement plan is yourself, surely.
The conversation is also about a) the likelihood that when (surprise surprise) the world does not end and these people have no retirement savings, they will demand public assistance funded via higher taxes on younger working people. And b) the idea of not taking action to make the world better, out of a sense of hopelessness and frankly laziness.
It’s impossible not to feel powerless today because despite all the efforts we go to, everything seems to be going more and more wrong with time.
Seems to be but isn’t.
Helplessness is propaganda. You are being lied to by people who want you to feel this way.
You can start doing your part in the easiest way possible: argue against and shut down Russian propagandists on this very site trying to convince Americans not to vote for Biden. That’s an important job if saving the world is your goal. Forums and social media are battlegrounds of ideas, and you can be a soldier in the army of truth and good.
We aren’t asking for tax payers money to take care of us in the way you’re thinking. We are asking for universal basic needs. For the young and the old. Healthcare, housing, etc. To move past capitalism. Especially since we are already seeing the issues popping up. People are already starting to work later in life to pay the bills. We are already seeing a surge in elderly homelessness. Of people not being able to pass down anything in inheritance because they have health issues and need to stay in a facility which takes everything from them.
We aren’t waiting to say “Now that we are older take care of us”
We are currently saying the system is broken now.
Sure, but that’s a slightly separate issue than the people who could save, choose not to, and then demand taxpayer money to make up the difference.
Ph yeah, no, I agree with that part. But the part about people waiting till they’re old and then demanding. That part is something we are doing now. We just want people to be taken care of in general. It shouldn’t have to be a worry for anyone of any age.
But I do agree that those who are lucky enough to be able to save should save. Cause even if shit gets crazy, having something to help you will be better than living in an apartment with nothing. Either way it’s a win.
Who is doing this? This seems like a made up scenario. I don’t know how retirement works in the US but here everyone gets a state pension, as long as they have paid taxes for a certain number of years. It’s not much, imo it should be enough to live on regardless of the mistakes you make in your youth… I think we should all have the freedom to splash out when young and still retire, whatever the reason. I mean while, yes, the money technically comes from present day taxpayers, you paid your taxes in the past to pay for the last generation(s) of retirees… It works out.
Google cycle of abuse.
It’s harsh but trhe correct move.
The victims are the only ones who can change it before they turn into the villains.
I don’t particularly want to sacrifice my small luxuries like a nice dinner or better quality tea, so I can save money for when I’m old and have significantly less energy than now. And that’s on top of the negative outlook on the future. I’ve tried hard to be positive but it’s really difficult when everything is going wrong
You sound like the rich
Says the guy typing on a phone that countless exploited workers made for a deplorably low wage. Typical.
You think we’re different… because They need you to keep that stratification alive.
There is no Rich v Poor, we’re all crabs in a bucket compared to the ones truly at the top, and without their intervention: this planet burns.
To be clear the planet will be fine, if it changes it’s only it’s habitability to humans and other current lifeforms.
The planet will recover like it always does from major celestial events, ice ages and super volcanos. Following those life will eventually come back with or without humans.
The planet deals on far larger timescales than we can comprehend as 100 year lifeforms.
To be clear, I’m not advocating for the deconstruction of the current ecosystem as we know it. We should reduce our impact, but I’m saying the planet will be fine regardless.
No one is concerned about the actual rock…
No one’s arguing that point in the slightest.
I’m sorry but no… sure we should try to make a better world. But we’re not in this shit because of failings of personal responsibility.
10 companies produce 80% of the pollution in the world. Research after research shows that in “democratic” countries the poorer 90% have basically 0 influence in politics. We literally have no power to make any meaningful change.
The world will die and it’ll be the fault of a handful thousand families. Not ours.
Sure, we could’ve stopped them before it got to this point. But when? It’s been like this for thousands of years.
I don’t know if those statistics are correct, with the ten companies and poor 90%.
If it is, your conclusion is “we have no chance in this system”
Mine is “the solution can’t be companies or politics then”
Man, the people still have the power. That’s why political systems try to separate us as best as they can. Creating diversity instead of unity. Everywhere.
If we wanted, we could change the world within a month. We just don’t want to. Because we are fed the most stupid stories and ideas, as many as possible. From diets to skin colors to countries being evil by nature.
Most of humanity are just normal people. A few million of them are megalomaniacs. And they managed to make us all believe that they run the show. But we are running it for them. :)
The numbers might a bit different but it’s close enough to illustrate the point.
My conclusion is not “we have no choice”, but “choosing within the system will never solve anything”.
And if you really think we have the power… please illuminate me. Give an example of this.
If you really think we’re in this shit spot because people are lazy or unmotivated, then you don’t understand systems at all.
People act the way they act because of the system. They do what they do because they exist within capitalism. All the structures around us exist to maintain it. From the moment you’re born to the moment you die, your whole existence is directed by the system.
From marketing to union busting, from war to elections. It’s all made to serve the system.
You speak very idealistically about being able to have an impact. But how would that actually look like in our physical material reality? What can we ACTUALLY do that would even make a change?
I don’t know. The French revolution? Hippies? Homeless communities? Revolutions have been done countless times, and they always started with no real chance to succeed.
What do you want me to say here. A plan to save the world? I have no idea where you are and what your situation is. That’s the point.
We have all the networking, but nobody connects. The world is in the best spot ever, technologically, but we use it to divide. Where are you? What’s you biggest issue? Let’s pool together and see if there is a way out?
We all divide into groups, splinter-groups and even smaller units. Especially so since about 20 years ago. We should unite. How hard can it be?
Would you try?
Or would you rather debate me, telling me it’s not possible?
I’d guess you’d pick the latter. Why is that?
I don’t want to debate anything. But you are rejecting reality. Why do you think we are so divided and diving deeper and deeper into useless rabbit holes?
Sure the internet is “great”, but why do you think it was invented and spread around the world?
Neoliberalism and post-modernism created and shaped an infinity of tools to control and manipulate us into being atomic neurotic incapable shits.
I do what I can, and I am not saying to give up. But if you base your struggle on idealisms and reject material reality for what it was and is, there is no chance. We have to understand the world and the systems of power and control fully to even have a chance of doing something.
Hoping everyone just “wakes up” through hearing the “right ideas” and “rises up” in a glorious movement is just… fantasy, it’s silly. It will never happen.
We have to study what worked before, and how the world changed from then to now, and try to find a new path that is different. But being always grounded in the actual reality of things. Understanding we have massive hurdles, that never existed before. And how those will shape our struggle.
Im sorry. What possible way is there to compete against trillion dollar companies financing every aspect of politics? You can’t play that game. And nobody is coming around to save us all. You can only reject it and rebell. That’s how change works. Has always worked. and will always work. You just don’t want it enough yet.
You are playing a rigged game and expect to win, and you say I’m rejecting reality. It’s you who needs to accept that people still have the power. And tell others. That’s how revolutions happen. From the bottom up. Always.
Rejecting “the game” only works individually. Sure a couple dozen people can fuck off into the woods and live like hippies. But it can’t fix society. And society is what you’re calling a “game”.
I don’t want to live in the woods and reject humanity. I want to help society be good.
Who do those companies sell to? All money in politics does is advertising. Why aren’t we better informed regardless? Why aren’t we better organized to stop them? We act helpless about where we can work but indebt ourselves for bullshit. Faster widgets, more content to ignore the world with, more drugs to ignore ourselves with.
It would be bullshit to ignore the antagonistic role capital plays, but we have to act for change to actually happen and it maybe acting so that beyond our life times we effect meaningful change. That’s all I’m saying.
We do have to act, but it’s not voting or “buying” right. Capitalism is self-sustaining through many avenues. Marketing is a big one. And when there’s one company that sells something, you don’t have a choice.
The system is the issue, and the only solution is a systemic one. But if you study even just a bit of the history of western colonialism and the US empire, you realize that trying to enact that systemic change is basically suicidal.
What do you do when if you try to do something that will have an impact they kill and jail you?
We’re in a completely different era of totalitarianism. The powers that be control the world in ways absolute kings in the Middle Ages couldnt even dream of.
What is an actual material action you think we could take that would actually be effective…?
How naive do you have to be to honestly think this‽ 😱🤦🏼♂️😶🤦🏼♂️
Blessed are those that plant trees for the shade they will never see.
Trees can grow very quickly and its not unreasonable to believe you’ll get to sit under the shade of one in your lifetime.
I mean, definitely, you’re blessed if you do this. But also, you could just be playing the (very good) odds of self-interest through doing things to make the world a better place.
This mentality is why we are in the position we are today.
I think folks underestimate how quickly a new policy can yield change. To put a darker spin on it, consider the advent of fracking in the prior decade.
https://impactful.ninja/the-carbon-footprint-of-fracked-gas/
Fracked gas has one of the highest carbon footprints of all energy types. Per kWh produced, fracked gas emits 490 grams of carbon dioxide (CO2) on a life-cycle basis. It produces lower levels of CO2 than the other two fossil fuels, coal and oil, but still directly contributes to climate change.
Imagine if we hadn’t planted that tree back in 2014.
Fracking is like the exact opposite of planting a tree. How did you even come up with that insane counter example?
Pretty telling that so many comments here immediately blame the proletariat. The fucking power of propaganda. Christ, we’re so fucked.
If everyone else wasn’t so lazy and evil, I could retire sooner and more comfortably.
I’m uniquely underpaid, overworked, and unlucky. No one else is like me. No one will ever sympathize with me. So its just me against the world.
The only thing I can do to change my lot in life is to throw in harder with a high profile ultra-wealthy industrial captain in the eternal war against foreigners, corporate rivals, and the unemployed.
Yes, yes, blame the other crabs in the bucket. That’s the way to the top, for sure.
Also, the “woe is poor me & my wholly unique predicament” trope is yet another spoonful of bullshit you’ve been fed. We’re all underpaid, overworked, and unlucky — and no one is different in that. Begin the sympathizing with yourself, and see we’re all against the fucking world out here.
You do you, at the end of the day, though. The only thing at stake is your happiness.
Do you need it pointing out that the reply was sarcasm?
I’m told its undetectable for Americans, which I guess makes sense if you grow up in a country where about 1/3 of the population is genuinely insane.
As an American, I noticed the sarcasm just because lemmy has a very anticapitalist user base, but on any other platform I’d be genuinely concerned that it was written by one of the 50% of my country’s population that actually believes that …
Yes, yes, blame the other crabs in the bucket. That’s the way to the top, for sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits
The only thing at stake is your happiness.
If only. You’re living a very blessed existence if happiness is the only thing you have to worry about.
Hey, if you’ve got all the answers, what’s the problem, guru?
Do as the Buddha, abandon all craving, and you will reach Nirvana.
I’d be wary of any ties to religion — even the seemingly most benign, friendo. 🫥
It’s true that Zen Masters rejected all religions, and that Gautama was an illiterate Prince who did a bunch of dumb stuff before promising others he could bring them eternal happiness…
But the whole “friendo. 🫥” thing?
Why y’all gotta patronize?
Gluttony and materialism, I’d say. We all could have rich and wonderful lives. A few percent of us want more. And they try to make the rest think that that’s the right thing to do for everyone, even if that’s technically impossible.
I’m pretty sure that’s the root of all evil. You are welcome.
Nobody is coming to the rescue and we’re on a timer.
That’s funny, thinking that people get to retire at 65. For me it’s 68.5 years, but that will probably be pushed backwards before then.
Yeah I am betting it will be 75 for me and I am only 43 now.
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You’ll have a whole 10 years before they grab you for the Near-Death Star
Yea, being 33 and a moderately successful freelancer I don’t see myself retiring… pretty much at all, if the current trends keep trending
Moderately successful sounds real nice.
I didn’t know how to put it, not sure it translates well… anyway
…i’m hoping to pull off eighty, at least have sufficient reserves to care for myself in senescence…
I want to retire every 7-10 years. I definitely hope I can still work hard beyond 68.5 years young.
The advantage of a self-employed mindset, I suppose.
I’m on the Smith & Wesson retirement plan myself
Playing solitaire with a pearl-handled deck.
…oh, that’s poetic…
It’s from “Carmelita” by Warren Zevon. Great song!
While I can understand the sentiment, this is a REALLY bad and irresponsible thing to do and detrimental to yourself and society as a whole.
Lemmy, please do everything you can to set yourself up for a successful retirement. Even just a small contribution to a retirement account really will make a big difference when you’re older.
The best thing I can do for a successful retirement is commit some crimes and get arrested. A “small” contribution is still outside my price range. You gotta be putting away hundreds a month at least. Retirement simply isn’t something you can plan for if you make below average income.
These “you should have saved for retirement” people really piss me off, especially the “you should have cut out luxuries” assholes. Bitch, I’m like the 62% of the rest of America that lives paycheck-to-paycheck. What luxuries? The occasional chai latte to make my life slightly more bearable? Buying my daughter Taco Bell once in a while to see her smile?
If I have to work for decades and deny myself any comfort for those decades just to have some comfort for the last 10-20 years of my life? Fuck that.
If your not even planning on saving for yourself what are you going to do for your daughter?
Holy shit, do you honestly think not buying a latter or Taco Bell once or twice a month would be enough to save for retirement?
You’re like one of those “don’t eat avocado toast” people.
Crazy how defensive you get when I am asking what your plan is.
If you are doing the best you can with your budget this thread doesn’t apply to you and there’s no need to be offended. Many others do not make good financial decisions and need help preparing for their future. Financial budgeting education is lacking in our schools, and many learn the hard way.
Promoting narratives that nobody can do anything to better themselves financially is irresponsible.
I’m getting defensive because I said I had nothing to save and your response was questioning what I was doing for my child as if this was my fault.
Because here is what I said:
These “you should have saved for retirement” people really piss me off, especially the “you should have cut out luxuries” assholes. Bitch, I’m like the 62% of the rest of America that lives paycheck-to-paycheck. What luxuries? The occasional chai latte to make my life slightly more bearable? Buying my daughter Taco Bell once in a while to see her smile?
If I have to work for decades and deny myself any comfort for those decades just to have some comfort for the last 10-20 years of my life? Fuck that.
In response to that, you said:
If your not even planning on saving for yourself what are you going to do for your daughter?
As if I could plan for my daughter’s financial future if I just didn’t have a latte and buy my daughter Taco Bell once in a while rather than not have savings because I’m fucking poor.
Can’t imagine why that would make me defensive.
What’s next, telling me it’s my fault for not being wealthy?
…same thing our parents did for us: hope she can manage on her own…
I lived that too, and it’s not ideal for any child. Can we agree on that?
Maybe even people could hold off on kids till they have their shit together?
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Another day of monotony’s
Gotten me to the point I’m like a snail, I’ve got
To formulate a plot or end up in jail or shot
Success is my only motherfuckin’ option, failure’s not
Which sounds nice, but not realistic. As others have also said, there will always need to be ditch diggers. Not everyone is going to be able to retire. No matter how many Eminem lyrics you know.
Gatekeeping retirement to only the wealthy is unacceptable to me (and many here). Be gay, do crime, and mooch off the system that fucks so many over.
How TF am I supposed to do that?!! I can hardly eat.
Dumped it all in Bitcoin, amidoingitrite
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My retirement plan is a cyanide pill to avoid the torture of roaming dystopian gangs of armed militias when they ransack my place because law and order has largely vanished and I’m their next stop.
Na, I’m just kidding. I enjoy the pain.
You either die to the prion-diseased rape cannibals or you live long enough to see yourself become a prion-diseased rape cannibal.
I plan to die in the Climate wars, myself.
Water Wars of 2038 here.
I’m betting everything on the Battle Royale of canned food in 2041
Planning to perish in the war against the extra dimensional invaders in 2478.
I’ll die in World War III, Eastern Europe Theatre, 2026 (when Trump’s election pushes the current geopolitical tensions over the edge).
I hope I’m gone before the crumbling even starts.
Yo look around.
Fuck
FUCK.
Did that for my student loans, unfortunately society didn’t collapse… But I learned If you ignore it long enough they go away 😅
Huh, my reasoning was always I’ll probably be dead before I reach 65, but I guess this also works
My retirement plan involves laying down in a ditch off a highway in Colorado with an amazing view of the Rockies during a freezing winter night and just falling asleep. Social Security will not exist when I reach retirement age. I have a pension through work, I contribute to a Thrift Savings Plan, none of it will be enough, and I refuse to contribute more to either (as my Boomer parents both (of course) suggest), because to me I am literally throwing that money away. I will never see that money, the markets will crash, I will be left with nothing anyway, there’s no point.
(Edited for accuracy)
The copium some people have about gov work is absurd, GS pay raises don’t match inflation AND (at least in the IT field) typically pay worse than industry standards, for…
- slightly cheaper insurance benefits
- faster time off accrual (assuming you stick around for 3 years for 6 hours per pay period (2 weeks) or 15 for 8 per pay period, which is only for annual leave. Sick is capped at 4 hours regardless.)
- a pension that a political party absolutely intends sweep out from under you (that you pay more into than any of the folks in your office that have been there since before january 1 2013, 0.8% of pay vs 4.4%)
- TSP: a 401k by a different name.
Oh, but it’s also “more stable” (we’re definitely not facing a shutdown deadline on the 8th and 22nd of this month, which is somehow more confusing in news coverage because nobody covers who is/was affected which shutdown deadline or if the march 8 shutdown is still possible).
That does sound a lot more peaceful than my retirement plan of: using my 2nd amendment rights on myself lol
Hey, I’ve tried that one before, it doesn’t work that easily. I think you might need to do some drugs or get really drunk for it to work properly. Alcohol would work well because it encourages blood flow to extremities, making you feel warmer while making you go faster but I think ketamine would be the best way to go
This is… An unhealthy mental stance to take. The markets have pretty consistently gone up for just about a century now, its about time in the market not timing it. Yeah it will go up and down, yeah we really might see a recession in the next few years, but 20-30 years from now, money you’ve invested will be worth considerably more and you’ll likely feel quite different when the time rolls around.
I worry about you, grasshopper_mouse. If you really feel this way, please talk to someone.
“You don’t understand! Right now is the worst times, and my specific suffering is the worst and most hopeless in history! This is the end!”
I still want a retirement plan for my future but uncertainty over nuclear warfare and the end of democracy in the US played a role into me spending a chunk of my money on a motorcycle, which pushes aside the fear of the future into a present mix of joy and adrenaline.
Not to mention convenient transport in a Mad Max-style apocalypse, until the fuel runs out.
Well being a motorcyclist on the roads today may mean you don’t need a retirement plan after all!
(in all seriousness, stay safe out there, I’ve lost too many friends to careless drivers who don’t look for bikes before doing dumb shit on the roads)
Thank you!
I quietly take a truly unhealthy regimen of stimulants before I go to the gym, and every man in my lineage either died of or was diagnosed with heart problems.
A heart attack at the gym sounds like an admirable death, “they died trying to better themselves” kind of thing. Bonus, I look good now.
Its bullet proof gym motivation too, the worse day I have, the harder I cardio. It’s like depression aikido.
Me having a morbid thought: “I just want to be dead.”
Also me, in Morpheus voice: “Show me.”
Ten years now with that mindset, barely ever miss a gym day.
Things never work out the way that you plan.
It’s a fine line between a clean noble death and being the guy who strokes out on the treadmill, falls, gets his nut sack wrapped up in the belt.
Don’t be the guy stroking one out while getting their nuts tugged, got it.
cool, what stimulants?
Usually Bang, adderall(Im prescribed this, but down dose the rest of the time to take more at the gym.), and ephedrine. When my body can no longer hang with that, I’m cool with it shutting down.
bang should be a schedule 1 drug, it’s the worst thing i can imagine putting in your body lmao
I’ve been very slowly getting more open and candid with the idea that I’m not going to be around to retirement age. The men in my family have incredibly rough odds, starting at 50, and I don’t think I’m going to be the one to beat the odds.
Healthy or not, constantly rolling this knowledge around my head—even voicing it —has helped to put a lot of things in perspective—even if it hasn’t yet instilled a YOLO mentality.
With climate change and fascism in a dead heat, I like my chances.
