I just got done listening to an old Behind the Bastards about Trofim Lysenko who was a Soviet scientist whose job it was to increase crop yield. He ignored Darwinian evolution in favor of a type of Lamarckian evolution that fit better with Stalin’s politics. This involved planting massive amounts of seeds per acre with the idea that the seeds would help each other grow better. He falsified his data to show that this worked and in the long run led to the starvation of 30 million people.
I don’t mean to criticize communism by mentioning this. Certainly capitalism has shown the same adherence to ideology in spite of evidence with climate change. I just think it was an interesting bit of history in light of the post which is actually good agricultural science they also fits with collectivist thought.
He falsified his data to show that this worked and in the long run led to the starvation of 30 million people.
The causation here is a simplification of a famine that had many other factors (I don’t think Lysenko was particularly important to it, even) and also a wild overestimation of the death toll of the famine
That death toll also includes China who also used Lysenko’s fake farming techniques. Russia didn’t want to admit their plan wasn’t working and China didn’t want to admit they were failing using the method that supposedly worked so well in Russia. Farmers reporting low crop yields in both countries were blamed and accused of hiding food for themselves. The deaths definitely fall on a lot of shoulders, but at its heart was Lyselko convincing the government to use his plan with false data and continuing that lie even after he knew it wasn’t working.
That’s interesting, I didn’t know that Lysenkoism bled into China, but your number is still nonsense because
The causation here is a simplification of a famine that had many other factors (I don’t think Lysenko was particularly important to it, even) and also a wild overestimation of the death toll of the famine
. . . applies even more to China. I’m no expert, but I’ve read a lot of people complaining about the GLF and its agricultural practices and that just never came up. I’m sure it’s a bad way to farm plants, but I think what you’re trying to depict is the product of anti-communists making mountains out of molehills wrt Lysenko. Lysenko is an incredibly convenient communist boogeyman who seems to verify every tired stereotype about communists, so saying it was this specific guy having an unfathomable level of influence [and thereby communism expressing itself to the fullest] that directly lead to a trillion people dead is an excellent bedtime story for those anti-communists so they have an easier time sleeping on the mountains of corpses butchered by their liberal states.
All I can say is that the host of behind the bastards is an excellent journalist who does thorough research before each episode. I don’t have any expertise in this topic, but in other episodes where I am knowledgeable his research has been accurate.
I mean, my suggestion is to look at any other histories of the two famines, including ones by rabid anti-communists, and you will see that there were many other factors (not that I expect a rabid anticommunist to talk about crop blights or kulak sabotage, but still).
By all means, do criticize communism, it’s a fresh thing here. Most people have this romantic idealistic idea about communism in their heads that is just as real as CEOs believing that capitalism is great for everyone, completely ignoring the horrors that it has brought.
Every system can and will be abused by assholes, unless you put good rules in place. Capitalism with good rules and taxes to restrict it is the best system to get humanity to move forward, using the tax proceedings to setup a socialist state. Even them there will be assholes that can be, and will have to be dealt with by laws.
For anyone balking at the idea that controlled capitalism (which funds a strong social system) is the best way to move forward, please remember that the very device you’re using to downvote me is a product that only exists thanks to capitalism.
Communism didn’t kill the people so much as Stalin’s habit of killing people who disappointed or disagreed with him led to massive falsification of scientific data and crop yields.
I just got done listening to an old Behind the Bastards about Trofim Lysenko who was a Soviet scientist whose job it was to increase crop yield. He ignored Darwinian evolution in favor of a type of Lamarckian evolution that fit better with Stalin’s politics. This involved planting massive amounts of seeds per acre with the idea that the seeds would help each other grow better. He falsified his data to show that this worked and in the long run led to the starvation of 30 million people.
I don’t mean to criticize communism by mentioning this. Certainly capitalism has shown the same adherence to ideology in spite of evidence with climate change. I just think it was an interesting bit of history in light of the post which is actually good agricultural science they also fits with collectivist thought.
The causation here is a simplification of a famine that had many other factors (I don’t think Lysenko was particularly important to it, even) and also a wild overestimation of the death toll of the famine
That death toll also includes China who also used Lysenko’s fake farming techniques. Russia didn’t want to admit their plan wasn’t working and China didn’t want to admit they were failing using the method that supposedly worked so well in Russia. Farmers reporting low crop yields in both countries were blamed and accused of hiding food for themselves. The deaths definitely fall on a lot of shoulders, but at its heart was Lyselko convincing the government to use his plan with false data and continuing that lie even after he knew it wasn’t working.
That’s interesting, I didn’t know that Lysenkoism bled into China, but your number is still nonsense because
. . . applies even more to China. I’m no expert, but I’ve read a lot of people complaining about the GLF and its agricultural practices and that just never came up. I’m sure it’s a bad way to farm plants, but I think what you’re trying to depict is the product of anti-communists making mountains out of molehills wrt Lysenko. Lysenko is an incredibly convenient communist boogeyman who seems to verify every tired stereotype about communists, so saying it was this specific guy having an unfathomable level of influence [and thereby communism expressing itself to the fullest] that directly lead to a trillion people dead is an excellent bedtime story for those anti-communists so they have an easier time sleeping on the mountains of corpses butchered by their liberal states.
All I can say is that the host of behind the bastards is an excellent journalist who does thorough research before each episode. I don’t have any expertise in this topic, but in other episodes where I am knowledgeable his research has been accurate.
I mean, my suggestion is to look at any other histories of the two famines, including ones by rabid anti-communists, and you will see that there were many other factors (not that I expect a rabid anticommunist to talk about crop blights or kulak sabotage, but still).
By all means, do criticize communism, it’s a fresh thing here. Most people have this romantic idealistic idea about communism in their heads that is just as real as CEOs believing that capitalism is great for everyone, completely ignoring the horrors that it has brought.
Every system can and will be abused by assholes, unless you put good rules in place. Capitalism with good rules and taxes to restrict it is the best system to get humanity to move forward, using the tax proceedings to setup a socialist state. Even them there will be assholes that can be, and will have to be dealt with by laws.
For anyone balking at the idea that controlled capitalism (which funds a strong social system) is the best way to move forward, please remember that the very device you’re using to downvote me is a product that only exists thanks to capitalism.
You can criticize Communism for killing millions of people. It’s a shame you felt the need to put that qualifier in there.
Communism didn’t kill the people so much as Stalin’s habit of killing people who disappointed or disagreed with him led to massive falsification of scientific data and crop yields.
Communism created food shortages that resulted in people dying.
Sources for 3x communist countries;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930–1933
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Period
I’ve explained elsewhere why the first two happened. The third was in large part due to the US blockade of Cuba.
My 100% rebuttal is also explained elsewhere.