I have a 2006 civic that I paid $1500 for. A full car with a roof, seats 5 adults, 4 wheels, air conditioning, heat, stereo, a trunk, could double as a home if I were down on my luck.
I am so confused how this is worth that much money. Small bike $300, battery pack $100, motor $50. So $2100 profit? Fuck that.
I think I’ll wait until the novelty wears off on e-bikes. Or try my luck at some diy options before I drop $2600 on an electric bike that will likely get stolen.
For what it is worth, Trek bikes are expensive. You are probably not buying a new adult Trek bike for $300. I went to their website and they have an electric bike that is $14k and they have cheaper bikes than this one that has a throttle. I think your price estimates in your math are low but I agree with your point. One reason that can make it hard to justify an e-bike is that they cost as much as a beater car but will get stolen pretty quickly in a lot of places if you are using it to commute/run errands/do anything that means your bike will be locked up for a long period of time.
I love the idea of e-bikes, but I’m so sick of getting excited… then seeing the price. I guess if nothing else it’s emboldening me to build my own, without any government restrictions.
Lol on my price estimates, I didn’t realize it was a 650wh battery, I guess a good general rule is about $1 per watt hour on lithium ion/polymer. Realistically they’re probably still making $1000 profit in each bike.
Batteries are changing quickly right now, I think lithium ion/18650 is outdated at this point. Costco has some lithium iron phosphate 1300wh for $650 each basically a car battery that weighs 20 pounds instead of 50 pounds, and can be charge cycled 3500 times at full depth discharge.
I just found two free bmx bikes last month, maybe this could be a fun winter project.
I absolutely have and drive a car - but the ebike I paid $2200 for over a year ago costs you $1500 today.
I could have gone cheaper, but I’m a very heavy guy and needed a strong frame.
After 600 miles I added another motor, battery, and controller and have since added a third battery.
I have a lot of fun, quick trips are FUN on my bike and ofter faster than my car ( 25 mph speed limit and my top speed is 28, plus I often get to park real close to the doors and can take paths I cannot or would not take a car ).
The “homeless” factor for me is that with some solar panels my fuel cost is nil. ( I don’t have those, but a “solar trailer” is planned ).
It doesn’t replace my car the same way my phone didn’t replace my desktop - but things that I would have used a (desktop, calculator, camera, etc ) for I now use my phone for. There are a lot of things I used to usey car for that I now do on my bike, and have more fun and very little frustration. ( Other drivers often get under my skin while driving )
Conversion kits are great bang for your buck. There are some decent budget options out there too though like Lectric and ENGWE. A good bike with a conversion kit would still be a better deal though.
I’m a fat guy - but when I cruise around in my neighborhood on my ebike the way guys turn their heads you’d think I was one of those famous “Chris” guys.
Maybe because you’re the fourth owner of that 2006 civic? The residual value of a used car has been passed from the original owner to you. Your $1,500 is a fraction of what Honda received for it 16ish years ago.
If you’re looking for a used ebike, you’ll find lower prices, but they are far more rare than civics.
One thing that I forsee helping in the future is having 18650/21700 batteries be interchangeable like normal AA batteries are.
If devices had sufficiently smart BMS modules then we could stick any batteries into them without any added fire risk and they could simply alert us when one was bad and needed to be replaced. Also with regards to fire risk there are mitigations that should be standard (like what tesla does).
If there were no “batteries included” and they were easy to add it would cut the cost and the e-waste by a ton.
Bro, a lot of shit was still using NiMh batteries in 2003. I know a lot of the advancements haven’t been very sexy, but charge discharge cycle count, energy density, rapid charging, high wattage discharge, these are all important. I’m going to stay hopeful.
The sodium 18650s are available on Alibaba for a few weeks :)
And for re-use my “extra” batteries are all interchangeable or able to be put to use elsewhere when the bike isn’t in use. ( I’ve been considering an inverter for power outages).
I mean you personally may be able to reuse them, but most people just throw their old escooter (or whatever) away when they get a new one, or at best resell it or donate it.
Image how cheap a new ebike could be if you only had to swap the batteries from your old one
Wow! Only 2600 dollars!
I have a 2006 civic that I paid $1500 for. A full car with a roof, seats 5 adults, 4 wheels, air conditioning, heat, stereo, a trunk, could double as a home if I were down on my luck.
I am so confused how this is worth that much money. Small bike $300, battery pack $100, motor $50. So $2100 profit? Fuck that.
I think I’ll wait until the novelty wears off on e-bikes. Or try my luck at some diy options before I drop $2600 on an electric bike that will likely get stolen.
For what it is worth, Trek bikes are expensive. You are probably not buying a new adult Trek bike for $300. I went to their website and they have an electric bike that is $14k and they have cheaper bikes than this one that has a throttle. I think your price estimates in your math are low but I agree with your point. One reason that can make it hard to justify an e-bike is that they cost as much as a beater car but will get stolen pretty quickly in a lot of places if you are using it to commute/run errands/do anything that means your bike will be locked up for a long period of time.
I love the idea of e-bikes, but I’m so sick of getting excited… then seeing the price. I guess if nothing else it’s emboldening me to build my own, without any government restrictions.
Lol on my price estimates, I didn’t realize it was a 650wh battery, I guess a good general rule is about $1 per watt hour on lithium ion/polymer. Realistically they’re probably still making $1000 profit in each bike.
Batteries are changing quickly right now, I think lithium ion/18650 is outdated at this point. Costco has some lithium iron phosphate 1300wh for $650 each basically a car battery that weighs 20 pounds instead of 50 pounds, and can be charge cycled 3500 times at full depth discharge.
I just found two free bmx bikes last month, maybe this could be a fun winter project.
Oh, and the new sodium batteries are now on Alibaba insanely cheap - so your point about battery tech is solid.
I have the ion battery my bike came with and 2 LiFePo4 batteries ( 20ah @17lbs & 35ah @27lbs ).
I think for the average person if you have a bike the a lot is a GREAT way to go.
I absolutely have and drive a car - but the ebike I paid $2200 for over a year ago costs you $1500 today.
I could have gone cheaper, but I’m a very heavy guy and needed a strong frame.
After 600 miles I added another motor, battery, and controller and have since added a third battery.
I have a lot of fun, quick trips are FUN on my bike and ofter faster than my car ( 25 mph speed limit and my top speed is 28, plus I often get to park real close to the doors and can take paths I cannot or would not take a car ).
The “homeless” factor for me is that with some solar panels my fuel cost is nil. ( I don’t have those, but a “solar trailer” is planned ).
It doesn’t replace my car the same way my phone didn’t replace my desktop - but things that I would have used a (desktop, calculator, camera, etc ) for I now use my phone for. There are a lot of things I used to usey car for that I now do on my bike, and have more fun and very little frustration. ( Other drivers often get under my skin while driving )
Conversion kits are great bang for your buck. There are some decent budget options out there too though like Lectric and ENGWE. A good bike with a conversion kit would still be a better deal though.
Also seems like a fun project, and possibly a real head turner out in the world.
Just be sure to get quality parts, especially the battery!
Thanks fartswithanaccent, safety first!
Knowing is half the battle, GI Joe. etc.
I’m a fat guy - but when I cruise around in my neighborhood on my ebike the way guys turn their heads you’d think I was one of those famous “Chris” guys.
Maybe because you’re the fourth owner of that 2006 civic? The residual value of a used car has been passed from the original owner to you. Your $1,500 is a fraction of what Honda received for it 16ish years ago.
If you’re looking for a used ebike, you’ll find lower prices, but they are far more rare than civics.
One thing that I forsee helping in the future is having 18650/21700 batteries be interchangeable like normal AA batteries are.
If devices had sufficiently smart BMS modules then we could stick any batteries into them without any added fire risk and they could simply alert us when one was bad and needed to be replaced. Also with regards to fire risk there are mitigations that should be standard (like what tesla does).
If there were no “batteries included” and they were easy to add it would cut the cost and the e-waste by a ton.
New battery tech in the next 5 years is hopefully going to make lithium ion obsolete. Fingers crossed.
I’ve been hearing that my whole life and it hasn’t actually improved much in the last 20. But yeah it would be great if you’re right.
But smart BMS with easily user-replaceable batteries is tech we could use today. Furthermore you can buy packs like that off aliexpress right now.
Also, wanting to reuse batteries from an old device after upgrading will always be a problem.
Bro, a lot of shit was still using NiMh batteries in 2003. I know a lot of the advancements haven’t been very sexy, but charge discharge cycle count, energy density, rapid charging, high wattage discharge, these are all important. I’m going to stay hopeful.
The sodium 18650s are available on Alibaba for a few weeks :)
And for re-use my “extra” batteries are all interchangeable or able to be put to use elsewhere when the bike isn’t in use. ( I’ve been considering an inverter for power outages).
Btw what are sodium 18650s? A new safer version?
Cheaper ( like 1/3? ), last longer ( more discharge /charge cycles ), can safely drain to 0.
Wtf that sounds awesome, any downside?
Iess dense energy storage ( bigger size ).
I mean you personally may be able to reuse them, but most people just throw their old escooter (or whatever) away when they get a new one, or at best resell it or donate it.
Image how cheap a new ebike could be if you only had to swap the batteries from your old one