There’s a certain demographic of self-described “leftists” who end up being pro-Russia because they are anti-US and see Russia as the opposition to the US.
I’m curious to see if they’re able to mentally reconcile a possible geopolitical future where full fash USA and Russia become allies. Are they so pro-Russia that they become pro-USA, or are they so anti-USA they finally become anti-Russia?
Or do they just stick their heads in the ground and pretend like nothing is happening because their US vs Russia worldview cannot support real life geopolitics?
There may well be people like you describe, but I see this point of view as exaggerated more often than not. I don’t know any leftists that “support” Russia, and certainly not any that think Putin is any kind of good guy. Yes, they view the US as a bigger threat to the world (with very good reason!). They also have a more nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine.
The “nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine” is usually a lot of mental gymnastics for the sole purpose of defending Russia.
lemmy.ml has a huge pro-Russia bias, for example, my recent comment accusing Russia of being a Nazi country was removed for being “bigoted”, another recent comment accusing Israel of being a Nazi country using identical phrasing remained untouched.
You can’t have it both ways, saying you don’t support Russia while putting in lots of effort to support Russia.
Again, it’s not my experience that such analysis boils down to defending Russia. You don’t have to agree with an argument to understand it, and you need to understand it if you don’t want to misrepresent it.
I don’t see it laying all the blame outside of Russia, but I do see a lot of “the other side” ignoring the role “of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.”
For the record: I do believe Ukraine has the right to defend itself from invasion. I also think this entire war could have been avoided. Russia largely seemed content with the status quo of having a friendly government in power. The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government. Russia rather predictably took this as a serious provocation. Again, not a value judgment, just a factual accounting.
I also don’t think this situation has a good analog either in Iraq (maybe “Desert Storm”) or Palestine.
If Putin came in as a liberator, sure. Instead it became a convenient excuse for the subjugation of Ukrainian people, demoralizing them and terrorizing them with war crimes, so he can annex their land and strip them of natural resources.
The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government.
Slight reference here to a prominent Russian theory that Ukraine is under US deep state government control. Which is this was true, the US wouldn’t looking to switch sides to Russia. And Ukraine wouldn’t be so set on continuing to defend itself even if the US switches.
That’s why I’m saying, pro-Russia leftists are going to mentally crumble if the US switches over, because their entire world view (the one they like to call their “nuanced geopolitical view”) has been ripped apart.
I genuinely believe that a Harris administration would also be looking for an exit at this point. The US has failed to meet most (any?) of its objectives with this proxy war, and is finally admitting it. This is a bitter pill indeed for many people in Ukraine and abroad. The fact is that nothing will turn the tide/retake territory, barring US/NATO intervention. I cannot see that happening no matter who sits in the oval office. Trump is a brash asshole about it, just like everything else, but I think the results will be the same.
The advantage of a Harris administration is that the US would continue to be unfriendly to Russia, so pro-Russia leftists could continue to believe that Ukraine was just a vassal ruled by US deep state plants, and not have to face the world-shattering reality of a US-Russia alliance against Ukraine.
After years of defending Russian war crimes I don’t think they’ll find it all that easy to “just stop supporting Russia”.
Like are they suddenly going to admit that Russia was commiting atrocities the entire time, or pretend the atrocities only started with the influence of their US ally, or just go silent on everything?
There’s a certain demographic of self-described “leftists” who end up being pro-Russia because they are anti-US and see Russia as the opposition to the US.
I’m curious to see if they’re able to mentally reconcile a possible geopolitical future where full fash USA and Russia become allies. Are they so pro-Russia that they become pro-USA, or are they so anti-USA they finally become anti-Russia?
Or do they just stick their heads in the ground and pretend like nothing is happening because their US vs Russia worldview cannot support real life geopolitics?
Yes
I was wondering the exact same thing
There may well be people like you describe, but I see this point of view as exaggerated more often than not. I don’t know any leftists that “support” Russia, and certainly not any that think Putin is any kind of good guy. Yes, they view the US as a bigger threat to the world (with very good reason!). They also have a more nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine.
The “nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine” is usually a lot of mental gymnastics for the sole purpose of defending Russia.
lemmy.ml has a huge pro-Russia bias, for example, my recent comment accusing Russia of being a Nazi country was removed for being “bigoted”, another recent comment accusing Israel of being a Nazi country using identical phrasing remained untouched.
You can’t have it both ways, saying you don’t support Russia while putting in lots of effort to support Russia.
Again, it’s not my experience that such analysis boils down to defending Russia. You don’t have to agree with an argument to understand it, and you need to understand it if you don’t want to misrepresent it.
I do understand the argument, and it lays all accountability for Russia’s invasion at the feet of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.
It’s the equivalent of blaming Iraq for the US invasion, or blaming Hamas for Israel destroying Gaza. Make sense?
I don’t see it laying all the blame outside of Russia, but I do see a lot of “the other side” ignoring the role “of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.”
For the record: I do believe Ukraine has the right to defend itself from invasion. I also think this entire war could have been avoided. Russia largely seemed content with the status quo of having a friendly government in power. The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government. Russia rather predictably took this as a serious provocation. Again, not a value judgment, just a factual accounting.
I also don’t think this situation has a good analog either in Iraq (maybe “Desert Storm”) or Palestine.
If Putin came in as a liberator, sure. Instead it became a convenient excuse for the subjugation of Ukrainian people, demoralizing them and terrorizing them with war crimes, so he can annex their land and strip them of natural resources.
Slight reference here to a prominent Russian theory that Ukraine is under US deep state government control. Which is this was true, the US wouldn’t looking to switch sides to Russia. And Ukraine wouldn’t be so set on continuing to defend itself even if the US switches.
That’s why I’m saying, pro-Russia leftists are going to mentally crumble if the US switches over, because their entire world view (the one they like to call their “nuanced geopolitical view”) has been ripped apart.
I genuinely believe that a Harris administration would also be looking for an exit at this point. The US has failed to meet most (any?) of its objectives with this proxy war, and is finally admitting it. This is a bitter pill indeed for many people in Ukraine and abroad. The fact is that nothing will turn the tide/retake territory, barring US/NATO intervention. I cannot see that happening no matter who sits in the oval office. Trump is a brash asshole about it, just like everything else, but I think the results will be the same.
I can’t argue against anything you said there.
The advantage of a Harris administration is that the US would continue to be unfriendly to Russia, so pro-Russia leftists could continue to believe that Ukraine was just a vassal ruled by US deep state plants, and not have to face the world-shattering reality of a US-Russia alliance against Ukraine.
If Russia and the US form a coalition they probably just stop supporting Russia no? This isn’t a team sport
After years of defending Russian war crimes I don’t think they’ll find it all that easy to “just stop supporting Russia”.
Like are they suddenly going to admit that Russia was commiting atrocities the entire time, or pretend the atrocities only started with the influence of their US ally, or just go silent on everything?