Western Marxists: we need to organise the working class
Western Marxists when an opportunity to organise appears: damn, that working class too lib for me
Sometimes USA MLs sound too much like Trotskyists, seeking only to chronicle the revolution or lack thereof from afar, and to feel smug about it when proven right. It’s a country-wide protest with millions of people, you don’t get many opportunities like that to squander.
The vanguard party can try and steer these spontaneous movements (which are deeply linked with the ICE protests) towards revolution, or it can sit idly by and watch it get co-opted. Thankfully FRSO and PSL are not boycotting this one.
I’m sorry to double tap but I’m like doubled over laughing on my run at the concept of someone going “keh, the Trotskyists would never think of handing out newspapers at a liberal demonstration” you are physically killing me 😭😭😭 what even is this site
Most trots I know do your exact pipeline of not preparing properly for contact with the masses, being shocked at how reactionary people can be, not doing self-criticism on preparation and methods of agitation, and deciding that the revolution is doomed because the masses are ignorant (unlike them, the smart Marxists). It’s idealism.
I would understand if an org decided that participating in this or that protest was not worth the effort for some material condition. You, however, are just abstaining from organising and encouraging others to do the same.
Look, I’m not going to explain basic logic to you, because it looks like you have decided not to confront the history of the orgs you are telling me to join. Fortunately I actually can’t, I am lying about being in America still. If I was, though, you wouldn’t have a good point. Coming up with an effective theory of action is a prerequisite for anything. Clearly somebody hasn’t read their Lenin.
Do you get off on pretending to be knowledgable online? Go away and read about some of the things I corrected you on. No spoon feeding for you.
Coming up with an effective theory of action is a prerequisite for anything.
And using protests and wider non-communist upheavals as agitation is not an effective theory of action? There’s an economy of effort, sure, but you’re not presenting any alternatives here.
Clearly somebody hasn’t read their Lenin.
One of the most basic tenants of ML theory is the organisation of a vanguard party that will symbiotically support and lead spontaneous working class struggles through agitation, propaganda and building worker organisations until the dominant class can no longer exercise power. What part of that are you even close to advocating?
You mean like many of the orgs showing up to this actually are? Who do you think Brian Becker (PSL) and Kshama Sawant (SAlt) are? As for the FRSO I already mentioned in another comment, their leadership picks and chooses when to use their congressional connections to get student protestors out of hot water while the prisoners they used as mascots languish for years. All of these orgs are open to people who busted down doors in night raids in Iraq. I know this really hard for you guys to understand, but to people with a functioning friend-enemy distinction, Mike Prysner is as bad as a “repentant” IDF soldier joining the group. America maintains multiple fronts of genocide and asking for more treats - sorry I mean New Deal benefits - nonviolently shows you don’t even consider your complicity an issue.
You really thought you did something. I did not realize the jokes about PSL members not realizing it was a Trotskyist org were so on point, but you’re probably just an online cheerleader anyways. Maybe it’s time to stop assuming everyone who knows more than you is on a secret mission to bum you out for the sake of petty sadism. I wasted time on this during the last liberal protests, and so will you if you didn’t learn from that or simply failed to take note before.
I kind of feel bad for people like you. I mean, you just don’t do it the way I do. I randomly open up CPUSA live streams on Trump’s inauguration day to see them organizing with Amy Klobuchar. Literally, on their live stream, bragging to me about Amy Klobuchar, the stapler throwing maniac prosecutor who knowingly sent an innocent man to his death helping them out. Where the hell would you even get this information otherwise? You’ll ignore it anyways I bet.
My sibling in Christ, I’m not nor have I ever been physically anywhere near the United States. Join an org or continue your lone crusade for Marxist purity, just don’t drag me into your hellscape.
What are you, Ian Miles Cheong? Get something real to care about. You must be some other variety of Anglo. I am not your sibling in Christ, perhaps you can find some of them among these hordes of liberal protestant atheoids.
Erm, wrong again? It’s not even that hard to guess my nationality lol
Anyways, give me something real to care about. What are Marxists in the USA actually supposed to be doing instead of trying to use these protests for agitation?
Only an Australian, Euro, or something of that variety would bother with this. You get attached to the most flippant remarks and skirt around the substantive things I have said to you. Goodbye!
Your flippant remarks are the ones I find worthy of response. The rest is just the typical excuse hunt to not join any org because they’re bad, unlike my imaginary org which is good.
I would actually like an exposé on all the failings of these USA parties, would probably even agree with many criticisms. But that’s neither an excuse to do nothing nor related to my point that abstaining from liberal-leaning anti-estabilshment protests like this is a wasted opportunity for the sake of purity.
Only an Australian, Euro, or something of that variety would bother with this.
You managed to get every wrong continent. I’m impressed. Why is it you assume I’m from a white-majority country by default?
Western Marxists: we need to organise the working class
Western Marxists when an opportunity to organise appears: damn, that working class too lib for me
Sometimes USA MLs sound too much like Trotskyists, seeking only to chronicle the revolution or lack thereof from afar, and to feel smug about it when proven right. It’s a country-wide protest with millions of people, you don’t get many opportunities like that to squander.
The vanguard party can try and steer these spontaneous movements (which are deeply linked with the ICE protests) towards revolution, or it can sit idly by and watch it get co-opted. Thankfully FRSO and PSL are not boycotting this one.
I’m sorry to double tap but I’m like doubled over laughing on my run at the concept of someone going “keh, the Trotskyists would never think of handing out newspapers at a liberal demonstration” you are physically killing me 😭😭😭 what even is this site
Most trots I know do your exact pipeline of not preparing properly for contact with the masses, being shocked at how reactionary people can be, not doing self-criticism on preparation and methods of agitation, and deciding that the revolution is doomed because the masses are ignorant (unlike them, the smart Marxists). It’s idealism.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch06.htm
I would understand if an org decided that participating in this or that protest was not worth the effort for some material condition. You, however, are just abstaining from organising and encouraging others to do the same.
Look, I’m not going to explain basic logic to you, because it looks like you have decided not to confront the history of the orgs you are telling me to join. Fortunately I actually can’t, I am lying about being in America still. If I was, though, you wouldn’t have a good point. Coming up with an effective theory of action is a prerequisite for anything. Clearly somebody hasn’t read their Lenin.
Do you get off on pretending to be knowledgable online? Go away and read about some of the things I corrected you on. No spoon feeding for you.
And using protests and wider non-communist upheavals as agitation is not an effective theory of action? There’s an economy of effort, sure, but you’re not presenting any alternatives here.
One of the most basic tenants of ML theory is the organisation of a vanguard party that will symbiotically support and lead spontaneous working class struggles through agitation, propaganda and building worker organisations until the dominant class can no longer exercise power. What part of that are you even close to advocating?
You mean like many of the orgs showing up to this actually are? Who do you think Brian Becker (PSL) and Kshama Sawant (SAlt) are? As for the FRSO I already mentioned in another comment, their leadership picks and chooses when to use their congressional connections to get student protestors out of hot water while the prisoners they used as mascots languish for years. All of these orgs are open to people who busted down doors in night raids in Iraq. I know this really hard for you guys to understand, but to people with a functioning friend-enemy distinction, Mike Prysner is as bad as a “repentant” IDF soldier joining the group. America maintains multiple fronts of genocide and asking for more treats - sorry I mean New Deal benefits - nonviolently shows you don’t even consider your complicity an issue.
You really thought you did something. I did not realize the jokes about PSL members not realizing it was a Trotskyist org were so on point, but you’re probably just an online cheerleader anyways. Maybe it’s time to stop assuming everyone who knows more than you is on a secret mission to bum you out for the sake of petty sadism. I wasted time on this during the last liberal protests, and so will you if you didn’t learn from that or simply failed to take note before.
I kind of feel bad for people like you. I mean, you just don’t do it the way I do. I randomly open up CPUSA live streams on Trump’s inauguration day to see them organizing with Amy Klobuchar. Literally, on their live stream, bragging to me about Amy Klobuchar, the stapler throwing maniac prosecutor who knowingly sent an innocent man to his death helping them out. Where the hell would you even get this information otherwise? You’ll ignore it anyways I bet.
My sibling in Christ, I’m not nor have I ever been physically anywhere near the United States. Join an org or continue your lone crusade for Marxist purity, just don’t drag me into your hellscape.
What are you, Ian Miles Cheong? Get something real to care about. You must be some other variety of Anglo. I am not your sibling in Christ, perhaps you can find some of them among these hordes of liberal protestant atheoids.
Erm, wrong again? It’s not even that hard to guess my nationality lol
Anyways, give me something real to care about. What are Marxists in the USA actually supposed to be doing instead of trying to use these protests for agitation?
Only an Australian, Euro, or something of that variety would bother with this. You get attached to the most flippant remarks and skirt around the substantive things I have said to you. Goodbye!
Your flippant remarks are the ones I find worthy of response. The rest is just the typical excuse hunt to not join any org because they’re bad, unlike my imaginary org which is good.
I would actually like an exposé on all the failings of these USA parties, would probably even agree with many criticisms. But that’s neither an excuse to do nothing nor related to my point that abstaining from liberal-leaning anti-estabilshment protests like this is a wasted opportunity for the sake of purity.
You managed to get every wrong continent. I’m impressed. Why is it you assume I’m from a white-majority country by default?