I miss traditional message boards. No karma, no sorting algorithms, you just get new topics on top and replies are sorted oldest to newest.
You can have forum threads that go on for decades, but Lemmy’s default sorting system quickly sweeps older content away. I’m aware you can mimic the forum format by selecting the “chat” option in a thread and sorting by old, and you can sort posts by “latest comment” which replicates the old-school forum experience pretty well, but nobody does it that way, so the community behaves in the manner facilitated by the default sorting algorithm that prioritizes new content over old but still relevant content.
I also notice that I don’t pay attention to usernames on Lemmy (or Reddit back when I was on it). They’re just disembodied thoughts floating through the ether. On message boards, I get to know specific users, their personalities and preferences and ups and downs. I notice when certain users don’t post for a while and miss them if they’re gone for too long.
Upvote/Downvote/likes is the cancer that ruined it all. Before that one actually had to speak in support or against any given ideas. Now people can assume anything is true/false based on an arbitrary engagement number.
That lead to a lot more back and forth arguments as people had to get in the last word or people chiming in with agreements because that was the only way to see if multiple people agreed.
I like forums for informational discussions that don’t have a ton of back and forth. Forums are better for hobbies in my experience.
I remember a couple forums had a “thank” feature or something similar that would show, with your username, your approval for a post without having to make an additional post about it. No downvotes though, you had to speak up to be a hater. I think that was a fine middle ground.
Upvote-downvote is a great reaction to all the trolls. combined withan algorithm they can surface the good stuff and alert moderators to garbage. Algorithms are wrong in many places, but that is the implementation that is bad not the idea itself
Lemmys culture of downvoting well written things you disagree with is a problem though. So long as nothing is done about that you can’t make a good algorithm. idealy you would have the guts to upvote things you disagree with, but at least we need people to stop using downvote to disagree - respond with reason if you disagree.
A well written post that is completely wrong, possibly offensive, and a net negative to the conversation doesn’t deserve immunity to down votes just because of how it was written.
A down vote conveys disagreement and if everyone who disagrees responds then there will be complaints of people getting dog piled. Down votes means letting off some steam for some people, sometimes as a counter to a crappy post or comment getting positive votes they don’t think it deserves.
There are also a very tiny number of times that I have seen down votes on something that didn’t deserve it. Overall the vast, vast majority of votes are up votes even for stuff that doesn’t deserve it and a few down votes doesn’t ruin anything. The system works extremely well, even if people have a wide variety of thresholds for up voting and down voting.
What else should a downvote be if not for showing disagreement (Factual or sentiment) with a post?
I upvote things I disagree with if they contribute to the discourse in some way.
I got downvotes for typos. Yes grammar nazis exist.
You’re thinking moderators.
Community is better than a few gatekeepers.
If only we had a system where anyone could report anyone… Maybe have a link that says ‘report’… And we could have it on every topic, and every reply, so it would be easy to do… And after a number of reports by users of sufficient account age and in good standing, the reported comment would be moved to a quarantine so if the admins are unavailable, the forum can operate on autopilot to keep the users safe…
Ah well, nobody would ever implement that wild idea… sigh
At least unlike reddit, lemmy doesn’t punish you for getting downvotes.
Yes, I also think the voting system can make things worse in some ways. On a traditional forum the one and only way to show you like or dislike something was to leave a reply. With a voting system a lot of the “engagement” is just a number that moves up or down. It’s also way too easy to slip into the unhealthy mindset of mining karma because monkey brain like number go up. Granted on Lemmy it’s a bit better since you don’t have a single cumulative score.
Id argue nested comments are equally as bad as voting. Nesting comments just encourages bickering without any breaks in the chain at all and allow you to attack or even dogpile one specific person and comment instead of having to make your own point on your own comment and see if that has any conversarional merit other than tearing down someone else.