An investigation by Gamers Nexus found LG smart TVs sweep local networks to map phones and nearby devices. Tests also showed the sets can capture microphone audio with the screen off — they then upload data once reconnected to the internet.
Bring on the TV firmware. Jailbreak your consoles. Use Linux or steal windows and use tools to completely rip its spyware out of it (e.g. https://revi.cc/).
Custom firmware anywhere and everywhere a device that someone supports with custom firmware is a feature worth researching.
The fucks are only going to jeep doing it. Protect yourself. Push for GDPR like laws in the US. California’s privacy laws are headed in the right direction.
I think the original coverage from Gamers Nexus should also be linked here:
“We own the glass, we own the TV, we own the living room. We know who is in an LG home.” –LG President of Ads
These are the Gamers Nexus videos btw. Support them and their work. Get some cool shirts and physical media while you’re at it.
What is so dumb is he is banned from running a public company so they get him to run a private company. WTF the oligarchs are really this bad.
accountablity? none. consequences? none (maybe a slap on the wrist at most).
“The toaster is listening” in 2006 🤣
“The toaster is listening” in 2026 😬
Frakking toasters.
It’s 1984 for sure. Every devices listens.
SO SAY WE ALL!
This is a good time to remind everyone to:
- Install Pi Hole, get LG rules to nerf all the telemetric data going out
- Jailbreak the TV, install SmartTube for your YouTube account without ads and live your best life
- Edit: since some people asked for a Pi Hole configuration, I found a couple of them that I’m going to try out and tweak:
I hope it helps!
there was a time… long past I suppose …when this would have been an outrage and politicians would be holding press conferences where they took crowbar swings to such devices. Things sure have changed.
I have a Samsung TV that I suspect does this. Once upon a time (back when I was less knowledgeable about this practice) I connected my TV to the internet. I have since been totally I able to forget my network from the TV, even a factory reset didn’t wipe the network settings from it. I’ve had to block it from the network at a router level.
I only discovered it was still doing this when I got a new router, and I had a popup on my TV saying “software update downloaded and complete” and I was wondering how tf it did that even though I’d gone through the process of forgetting the network, and seemingly the settings showed it had been “done”.
Shady fucks.
Checks out. I wish this was a conspiracy - but they got caught shaking hands w CIA. most people forgot
using US tech - either domestic or foreign; youre being spied by both marketers or governments. sad but true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_7
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cia-hacked-samsung-smart-tvs-wikileaks-vault-7/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/07/cia-targeting-devices-smartphones-pc-tv-wikileaks
The CIA didn’t work with Samsung; they found a vulnerability in Samsung TVs then didn’t tell anyone about it.
Rip out the antenna.
Agreed, but, router block is far less work. 🤣
Right… Because it will only talk to your wireless router.
Genuine question…how else is it going to connect to the internet to upload data?
Your neighbor’s open wifi.
Yeah that’s fortunately not a problem for me lol
Read up on Amazon Sidewalk. I’m not saying your TV is using it, but with 5G and mesh networking companies are finding ways to get data back to them without relying on you.
I just changed my SSIDs.
I mean I know it’s about LG but they are all doing this.
This is why my tv’s don’t get internet access.
My TVs don’t get connected to the network because TV companies have started showing ads, and that was bad enough. Then came the fact that a lot of TV apps were making your TV into a residential proxy, making your TV into part of a botnet. And now, on top of all that, they’re spying on you.
The ads were bad enough.
In any reasonable world you would have control over devices in your house that contained computers and would be able to remove bad software and install your own stuff. But, these devices are all covered by section 1201 of the DMCA which makes it a crime to bypass any access control software. This is how Apple is able to block alternate app stores. It’s why printer ink is the most expensive liquid on the planet. It’s why John Deere is able to remotely brick a tractor anywhere in the world, and prevent farmers from fixing their own farm equipment.
What’s especially galling about this is that, the US forced the rest of the world to adopt this bullshit as a part of trade treaties, threatening that any country that didn’t do it might lose tariff-free access to the US economy. And now what happened? Trump just ripped up those treaties anyhow and imposed the tariffs anyhow.
I just wish there was a country brave enough to rip up the IP agreements the US forced on them and allow us to actually own our own stuff again.
They speculated it could connect anyway via some router brands, that allow specific devices to connect automatically. Since cases like that happened.
So if it’s range of neighbours’ routers, you might be fucked anyway. They didn’t confirm it though, to be clear.
He hacked it without internet access and also show that they can collect data without internet access
This is why I don’t buy smart TVs in the first place.
Unless you’re buying a commercial screen of some kind, you can’t really buy dumb TVs anymore, at least not from the major brands.
You can still buy dumb TVs you just have to search for them. You can also go off brand and get a dumb TV from a brand like sceptre.
I searched and couldn’t find a modern OLED from a reputable brand that didn’t have “smart” features.
I just don’t have a TV.
Is this even possible or reasonable? Smart tvs are pretty dumb if you never connect them to the internet, so no issues until they decide to add 5g chips to them
Or… If your neighbor has an open network… Or the TV has a secret networking protocol that allows it to talk to other LG smart devices that are on a network. Or it looks for phones that have the LG app installed… You get the idea. Once you put wireless capabilities in it, there is any number of ways it can leak your data out.
My solution here (this is my solution; i recognize 99.5% of people would never do this) is to open up the tv and physically remove any wifi adapters or cards. Obviously not stopping them from hiding them, but being under the plastic shell is enough to stop most people
I was wondering about this type of fix. Just physically disconnecting, desoldering, or even destroying the wifi hardware and microphone(s). I’m sure they have the usual passive anti-tampering stuff, but I’m guessing it won’t brick the TV if you’re careful and know what you’re doing. Not that I know what I’m doing. But I’m capable of following a YouTube video showing me how to.
Sure prove it. At least these are proven and now your just making stuff up.
Proving it is the hard and expensive part. I don’t really have the time, skillset, or money to buy a bunch of LG or other branded IoT devices, put them in an isolated test chamber and then try to decode all the RF noise come off them.
That being said, all the technical requirements to do the things I suggested in my previous comment currently exist in those smart TVs. All that was preventing LG from doing that was consumer trust, and they’ve clearly thrown that in the garbage. At this point, based on previous behavior, it should be assumed that they will go as far as possible to exfil customer data without their consent or knowledge, until proven otherwise.
I didn’t read the article and I’ve only watched the “trailer” for Gamers Nexus’ series on this so far, but I bet they actually do check this at some point.
Non-smart TVs are still available, they just cost a bit more. As for the connectivity issue, China has been caught hiding 5g chips in electrical control systems and city buses, and selling “free streaming” boxes with malware that scans networks and attacks targets deemed worth while. And all these TVs are being manufactured in China so why take the risk when you aren’t going to use the connectivity anyway?
Specifically which ones? Are they any good? HDR, color accuracy etc?
I went with Sceptre, as for the specs, I’m half blind so all I can say is I can see everything clearly.
Bingo. No need to connect your display.
Yep an isolated vlan with no internet access. Cast your media from a dongel or computer connected via hdmi.
Suggestions for people who only need and want a good screen instead of an ad infested spy station?
Use them as such, why would you give your screen Internet? Attach a Mediacenter of your choice, e.g. Kodi.
Update firmware over USB.
you would think its as simple as that, but i have seen reports of lg automatically connecting to open networks if they are available
theres also the possibility of them adding some cellular transmitter in the future
maybe the only way is the desolder all the wireless antennas…
Can you link these reports? Not that I don’t believe it, but I see many comments claiming this and never including any evidence.
Faraday laminate around the antenna also.
Why? Why would I accept a device in my home that will snoop on me if I use it as intended?
I think the point is they can’t upload anything if they’re not connected. Unfortunately, they’re some of the best OLED TVs right now in terms of the display
I do understand that but I don’t think it’s something we should accept. Next thing these fuckers have their own 5G antenna and connect to mobile with zero config, then what, rip out the antenna or literally wrap it in tinfoil?
I agree. Don’t support what you don’t support. That being said, some people are ok with the trade-offs and that’s entirely up to them
My TV is 15 years old and works fine. Getting the best TV out there is not very meaningful anymore.
Because if you want a screen of a certain size, there are no other reasonable options.
The same reason you might buy a phone that will spy on you and show you ads. You can’t buy a phone that doesn’t do that.
LGs will find nearby wifi that will let them on to phone home. It doesn’t matter if your own network is locked down. And if they’re doing it, it’s likely others are as well.
Ironically LG still makes good screens. Just don’t ever connect their TVs to the network.
Edit: If you must connect it to a network connect it to a different VLAN (Guest network) with no other devices.
It might be best to connect it to a network that just blackholes the traffic so it doesn’t go hunting for some open wifi.
If it’s like a lot of other devices, it will realize that it can’t get to “The Internet” through that network, and might disconnect. It’s possible it will then look for another option, and might see an open network and use it.
However their budget models (under $400) are very uncompetitive.
TCL and Hisense are much better at those, and you can disable Wi-Fi then plug in your own box.
Can confirm. My LG C3 has never touched the internet (and never will) and it’s amazing.
Used commercial displays maybe.
I thought I had disabled everything but mine was still connected to WiFi. Thanks for the reminder. I disconnected it and blocked it at the router.
Tired of doing this for so many devices. We truly live in a full on surveillance state.
For what I saw in the video, even that way, the fucking TV try to connect to any available wifi to comunicate your data. Its insane
Yeah, I went with LG because I wanted to try an OLED, and the price was right. Never buying anything from them again, and whatever tv I do buy next I’ll disable all the shit from the get-go.
I’ve always been privacy minded, but things have gotten so bad, and I’ve gotten complacent. Hell, I just bought a connected smoke alarm system because my wife and kids needed something they can mute remotely. Should have just bought a stick instead.
I need to replace my WiFi, about time I get one with real VLAN support, so I can build an isolated guest/IoT network.
my wife and kids needed something they can mute remotely
But… why?
Because they are short and my ceilings are tall. We also cook a lot and with kids, smoke happens. So, the requirement from the wife was being able to silence remotely.
So by “remotely” you mean “from 1m away”?
When I was a kid we handled this “remote silencing” issue with a broom handle.
I did say “should have just bought a stick instead”.
There was a good reason for it, but no one can remember why now. Anyway, car been mow knock side
connected smoke alarm
What the fuck? I would have simply bought a wall powered smoke alarm, opened it up, and wired an auxiliary button to the snooze button’s pads and put that button lower down as one of those wall switch buttons.
You really just need to complete the circuit to make it shut up.
Looks like HAL from space odyssey.
It does!
Alarm: beeps
Push
Alarm: “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that”
…
Alarm: keeps beeping
Yeah untrusted devices should run in a client isolated vlan similar to a guest network.
All IOT devices are auto blocked unless I allow them.
Yeah, I’m glad I took the time to set up a separate VLAN for this. It wasn’t easy on my MikroTik router (nothing ever is with those), but it’s worth the effort.
in capitalist America , you don’t listen to tv , tv listen to you !
It’s fair to make it “you don’t watch TV, TV watches you!”
Which I feel like might have been a real Yakov Smirnoff joke way back when.
Kind of — Bob Hope made the joke in the late 1950s:
Bob Hope, back from his Russian junket, noted that there had been TV in all the rooms of his Moscow hotel–”only it watches you”
Brilliant!
Stuff like this is why I’m still holding on to my old TV for dear life. It’s seen better days but it’s at least easily repairable.
The amp went bad which causes the internal speakers to give up after a couple of minutes, so I just run it with a soundbar. Then one of the cats broke the optical port for it, so now it’s taped on lol. The panel still works great, so I think I’ll just replace the main board on it to keep it going for a few more years.
Once something on it finally goes where repairing it becomes unviable, then I’ve no idea where to go from there. I guess I’ll just keep buying used TVs and fix them up.
As people say in these threads everytime, just don’t give your tv Internet access.
Seems smart to avoid LG as well.
It’s still listening and recording. The recent Gamers Nexus video shows that the just store everything locally until they find a way to send it. They’re always scanning the radio for other access points too.
My Visio TV developed a thing where the OSD menus freeze up and the controls unresponsive frequently - it’s not connected to WiFi. Its my opinion that some internal drive is filled up with my watch data that a factory reset cannot fix, and I suspect the lack of disk space is why it’s freezing. I can’t* prove this, but I suspect it to be.
*I might possibly have the skills to, but my time is devoted to other tasks, and I don’t want to deprive my household of the living room TV just because I want to tear it apart.
Same with my vizio!
High risk low reward. the eFlash would almost certainly be wiped in a reset. If you did get to it, it’s not removable. If you unsoldered it, the new one could need a base load on it for it to work. You could probably buy a used board from another TV, but it could well already have issues. Getting the screen off and back on in one piece isn’t trivial.
A friend of mine recapped his 75" Took most of a day, it did fix the tv, but he complained that it was definitely not worth it.
You should make sure the ACR and voice control features are disabled.
go one step further and open it up and unplug the wifi antennas, just to curtail it even further.
Yeah, it’s a fair point. It’s also because newer TVs are generally less repairable as well, but I didn’t get the message across very well.
I do tv repair. They are dead east to repair. Its basically a large laptop. You have a system board, power board, and depending the brand a few other smaller boards that are easy to swap. Getting the parts is not incredibly difficult, but it depend how new, how old, Eric. EBay is key. But, like any tv, of its the screen, it’s trash. Typically costs more to replace that then buy new.
it depend how new, how old, Eric.
Please do not dox your fellow users, Matt.
(I assume a typo for “etc” but I was amused) :D
If you do ever need to replace that tv, look into monitors for kiosks aimed at businesses. High quality, modern screens with no smart features 🥰
You know you can use a new to without connecting it to the internet.
Back in the 90’s we had designated computer desks, where the big ass CRT and big ass desktop PC lived. Most people would use a surge protector power strip with a master power switch, and they would use that one switch to turn on and off the CRT monitor, PC, printer, desk lamp, etc…
That seems like a great idea right about how.
I still do that and never did it any differently. Mainly to conserve energy, since my parental household was poor and we actually could not afford to leave appliances running when not in use. This became a habit and now I’ve been incidentally preventing data harvesting for years. I do need to get an old 90s alarm clock though, since I cannot always turn off my phone at night when I have plans in the morning. Also GrapheneOS.
I’m currently only with a CRT TV and running GrapheneOS, sadly I’m stuck with windows 11 so I’m still tracked there.
The alarm clock is a good idea too.
A modern TV will be fine if you get one that allows set up without Wi-Fi then disable the eco mode and motion smoothing.
You can even plug in a GrapheneOS phone with a USB-C to HDMI cable.
Cellphones do this same thing though.
Not all of them. Some have hardware kill switches and don’t run iOS or Android.
We can’t solve all our problems in one fell swoop. We can at least solve some of them.
