I introduced kbin to someone today who asked what the fediverse was. I answered for them of course, but it made me realize that the concept is still technobabble for most people. The average joe probably doesn’t care or notice that server A is really talking to server B. Just have them find out on their own and if a mass migration does need to happen from A to B, just make a standard announcement.
I don’t really agree with this because the fediverse is not only interconnected by a technology (ActivityPub) but also by some shared values, like inclusivity and kindness to each other.
so for me it’s important to agree to embrace those values if you want to be part of it. it’s not just a replacement for other platforms. users that experienced the twitter migration know what I’m talking about.
if an instance becomes toxic, il will simply be de-federated and continue to live on its on , on a secular island (a good example of this is thruth.social, who is not accessible from mastodon.social for obvious reasons). I really don’t want this to happen to here.
so please let’s keep what was on reddit on reddit and build something new here.
I don’t really agree with this because the fediverse is not only interconnected by a technology (ActivityPub) but also by some shared values, like inclusivity and kindness to each other.
That’s kind of overegging the pudding. There’s nothing intrinsically “nice” about fedi, quite a lot that isn’t, and this feels like a promise that will be very rapidly seen as hollow lies the moment someone has a negative interaction, as well they might.
It’s what every underdog social network says when it doesn’t have the network effect yet. BlueSky, for example.
While I agree that it’s important for people to have an understanding of the values that the fediverse are founded upon, as well as associated etiquette, I still don’t think that the fediverse itself needs that much of an explanation for people to reach that understanding. Though platforms may provide tools that can be used for malice, a tool is only ever as good or bad as the intent of the person using them. I don’t think someone necessarily has to understand the technical aspects of the fediverse to know how to treat others. Maybe to put things in better perspective, like how much of a communal aspect there is to the efforts that maintain this network, but I think most people will get to that understanding on their own regardless if it’s truly in their intent. Inclusivity and kindness aren’t concepts that are unique to the fediverse, but human concepts that people learn, and unfortunately unlearn over entire lifetimes. And above all, I believe the best way to teach and convey values to one another will also always be the most intuitive: by example.
I think that it’s important for users to know where they are.
and I think that it’s critical to fight technological illiteracy, raise awareness about how it works, who’s developing it, who’s paying for it. it doesn’t need to be complex, but the main concept need to be explained, and thus let users be actors of their digital life.
in my opinion it’s important to take any opportunity to do so.
the online courses from the totem project about digital security and privacy are very well done and easy to follow, if anyone is interested:
https://totem-project.org
Here’s what would I say when introducing Kbin to someone:
“…So Kbin is a lot like Reddit; you can pretty much upvote and downvote stuff, you can post stuff that you wanna post, you can follow people, you can save posts by simply ‘boosting’. But here’s the deal: you can also access posts from other sites like Kbin, and you can write microblogs! With what’s going in Reddit, I think it’s safe to say that Kbin is here to stay.”
First rule of fediverse: Don’t talk about the fediverse.
I don’t agree. The term “Fediverse” must be mentioned at the very beginning of the introduction - the decentralized network must be understood as the basis of the whole. People have made the mistake for too long of selling Mastodon to people as the Fediverse - that’s just wrong.
and the fediverse is also about value of inclusivity. it goes beyond a technological ideal.
The issue is that for your average Joe Schmoe, decentralization isn’t really a selling point. For a lot of people, a computer is a magic box they use to visit websites, and how anything works under the hood is irrelevant. Whether it’s one server or a federation of servers doesn’t matter.
I saw a lot of people bail on Mastodon before even signing up because this concept of “instances” confused them. What server do I join? Can I talk to X of I’m not on X’s server? Do I need an account on each server I want to follow? This concept of multiple instances of a platform doesn’t exist outside of the fediverse. Kbin just pointing you to the default instance is probably the best thing it could do for widespread adoption.
I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone looking to join a new knitting community to learn about client/server relationships and federated social platforms. Point them to the main instance and give them a high level overview about the fediverse if they ask. The resources are here if they want to learn more.
I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone looking to join a new knitting community to learn about client/server relationships and federated social platforms.
This is my opinion as well. I really don’t think that the average end user should be expected to know or care about how federated servers work, any more than I need to know that when I visit a website it uses a load balancer to route my request to one of many servers. Users should be able to create an account and click on links to find and create content without having to understand anything about the technical end.
The onboarding process, prior to selecting a server, could be streamlined. It’s common fair to ask new users to identify some of their topics of interest. Server admins could provide a list of tags/topics that are associated with their community. The new user would then see a list of communities ordered by strongest matches to their interests. Just a thought.
As long as it’s optional. I absolutely despise sites trying to decide what I want to see based on a few vague interests. I know that works for most people, but I can’t be the only one who would have a negative impression of that being the only onboarding option.
I love this idea! Anything (within reason) to reduce decision paralysis is a great thing, and I think this would help a lot with that.
I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone looking to join a new knitting community to learn about client/server relationships and federated social platforms.
This is the situation with the communities I’m most interested in - it’s a big psychological barrier to entry, if you’re not particularly tech-minded. I’ve been trying to spread the word, but I don’t think I can put it simply enough (and I’ve been putting it really simply, because honestly I don’t completely understand it all myself yet).
I’m here because it was easy to sign up, it’s friendly and reasonably intuitive, and it seems like a place where you can learn by doing. I just jumped in without thinking too much about it, and it’s working out pretty well so far. I just wish more people understood that they could do the same thing…
I’m not too worried about the learning curve. I can remember when explaining Reddit to my friends ended in a blank stare. I also encountered plenty of people on Reddit, even recently, who were only there for a specific sub and had no real awareness of the larger Reddit system/community.
The same thing can happen with the Fediverse. Communities on specific instances will gain critical mass and attract people from outside the Fediverse, who will sign up and engage with what they think of as just another website.
I initially downvoted you because I disagree, but then changed my mind because it’s still a valid opinion. Personally, I agree with OP. People are being scared off by confusion in trying to understand what the fediverse is. While I agree it’s good to mention the fediverse and the distributed nature, it’s often coming across as the main thing and I think it’s counter-productive. People will come to understand it just fine if they can just be left to dive in without befuddling them. I think getting them on board is more important than it being in the fediverse.
I think what scares people off is looking for an explanation and seeing 15 page documents or 30 minute videos explaining it.
“Fediverse lets different sites talk to each other. It’s like if Facebook could follow people on Twitter and subscribe to subreddits so now your Facebook page has Facebook posts, reddit Twitter posts, and reddit posts all in one, if you want. If you join a site on the fediverse, you can communicate with any other site on the fediverse easily.” 3 sentences gets the job done for what’s needed.
One they’re in kbin or whatever, they can learn the site. “oh a magazine is like a subreddit or like channels in a discord server” or whatever they’re used to.
I wish that’s how it was explained to me. I’m not massively into technology but it interests me casually so I was able to put up with the long explanations because it felt interesting to me. But it really could be boiled down so much more for newbies.
I agree it’s not important to introduce and/or explain the Fediverse at length, but the concept probably cannot be ignored completely either.
People migrating from Reddit are faced with the choice between Lemmy and kbin, and a bunch of different servers. Telling them that “which one you choose doesn’t matter that much, as they will all talk to each other anyway” is probably of some relevance.
The differences among instances really do matter.
If Stormfront opens an instance tomorrow, would you say it makes no difference because they will all talk to each other anyway? You shouldn’t. The example of Mastodon shows they won’t all talk to each other, often for very good reasons. Like “that instance is literally Stormfront.” You can expect that instance to have Nazi moderation policies, to normalize Nazism and to engage in Nazi brigading.
Imagine an average Redditor lands on one of the main Lemmy instances, where everyone (on penalty of excommunication) holds that Stalin Did Nothing Wrong, that Ukrainian culture and language should be exterminated and submerged in the Russian Empire, and so on. If that Redditor doesn’t really understand that the instances are different in viewpoint and policy, they can reasonably conclude that the Fediverse is dominated by tankies. Meanwhile, despite their faults, Twitter and Reddit still exist and are not so clearly dominated by people who like to promote genocide. What does the average user think?
Absolutely - I’m coming from the assumption that they are given a list of reasonable instances (for example from the kbin front page or from recommendations).
Among a curated list of servers, it’s probably best to join one without assigning too much importance to it, and rather change instance later should you be unhappy. But of course, some instances should not be considered, and some might prefer to join an instance with stricter/more lenient moderation right off the bat.
