I don’t feel like that’s a fair comparison. Meat consumption has a lot of issues, but the consumer, at the end of the production chain, does not eat his steak with the mindset of “how much more can I make an animal suffer for the lulz, and can we take pliers to it first?”. Mostly, they are apathetic or unaware. (Disclosure: I have reduced meat a lot myself but am not entirely out yet and I keep giving myself B12 deficiency.)
I’d compare with much higher in the production chain, the people who devised and enforce inhumane practices.
But people are aware, they know meat is animals, they actively choose not to actually think about it and change their ways.
Even you who just said you know also admit you’re still eating meat.
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
btw. you should definitely be taking a B12 supplement, the animals you eat are fed the supplement so when you stop eating meat you need to take the supplement yourself.
I am taking supplements, but I need to figure my shit out because I fuck up either on the B12 or iron, each time. My first “bad” B12 deficiency came with some nerve issues and I do not want a repeat of that, it doesn’t entirely go away.
My goal is to entirely cut out meat, though. Right now, I don’t buy it for home food, but if I’m out with friends or coworkers, I’ll get whatever. It’s iterative, and as more alternatives become available in public places, I’ll get there.
That’s how I started too, and now I’m a die hard vegan :)
If your goal is in that direction, don’t get yourself down when you hit setbacks. I can thrive now, but when I was first beginning my journey I struggled a lot with eating out, especially abroad.
A setback doesn’t mean you can’t keep moving forward
You’re calling someone an unbelievable dumbarse and then immediately using a logical fallacy, who’s the dumbarse here?
An appeal to nature is a pathetic defense. It’s natural to rape and murder too, but obviously we recognise that those are negative things that should be avoided. Why do you think needlessly killing an animal is any different?
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
Plants are living things too, right? So why is it ok to eat them but not animals? Are you saying we should not eat plants too, because it also harm a living thing and we should all just die?
How about any carnivorous animals (which surprise, we are partially) do they need to stop eating meat too?
You misunderstand the ethics of veganism. Vegans aim to reduce suffering. So far, science points to most animals being likely to suffer similarly to how we as humans suffer, since we share evolutionary history and similar biological systems.
Plants do not share these systems, nor have any evolutionary pressure to be able to suffer or feel pain, since they would not be able to do anything about it anyway
It’s not a blanket “living things are sacred”
Furthermore, if you really cared at all about the poor suffering plants, you’d know that the vast vast majority of plants grown by humans are fed inefficiently to animals. So, by going vegan, you’d be hugely reducing the number of plants you are causing harm to
Finally, carnivorous animals have literally nothing to do with veganism. Please stop trying to discredit a movement you don’t even understand
I mean we are a species have deficiencies without supplements if having a full vegan diet, how can you say we don’t need animal products when not using them causes our body problems?
The only supplement needed on a plant based diet is B12, which is very easy to get.
Meat eaters also supplement B12, it’s just that the animals are fed the supplements before you eat them.
Do you also reject all other modern human inventions?
researchers found that avoiding all animal foods may lead to nutritional deficiencies in vitamin B12, omega-3, calcium, zinc, iron, magnesium, and high-quality protein.
Most farmed plants are used as animal feed, eating plants directly uses much less.
So even if this nonsense argument had any validity veganism would still be the answer.
Humans have the capability to consider the consequences of our actions, other animals don’t.
Lions sometimes eat their kids, should it be okay for humans to do the same because lions do it?
For big slaughter houses etc it is the same. The animals there a tortured on a daily basis. I’m not saying all meat eaters are evil, there are small local farms where animals can live a good life. But the large scale industrial meat (and dairy) production is just this.
Unless the only reason you’re enjoying your beef is because you enjoy thinking about how the animal was suffering to produce it, the two are not the same.
I’m not saying the meat industry isn’t evil, but it’s not torture for the sake of torture. They just don’t give a shit and are only concerned about profits, which is messed up but not the same.
In the meat industry, animal suffering is not the goal. The goal is to deliver as much product (food in this case) to the consumer as cheaply as possible. Animal suffering is a byproduct of this because on a large enough scale, both the consumer and the capitalists running the slaughterhouses are far enough removed from the animals that they don’t have to confront the moral questions of what they’re putting these animals through.
I agree that it’s still a disgusting practice, but it’s not the same thing as deliberately harming animals for your own amusement. In the meat industry, some people can hand-wave those moral concerns away by saying to themselves “at least the animals died for something good: to feed countless families”. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not (which, for the record, I do not), that same person can’t use that excuse in the case of these monkeys. It’s just pointless suffering for the amusement of a handful of psychopaths.
You’re conflating the “amusement” of eating food with the amusement of killing the animals to obtain that food. They are not the same. As stated in my previous post, there is a big disconnect in most people’s minds between the food they eat and the animals they come from.
But more to the point I’m trying to make, animals dying in order to feed people is different from animals being recorded while they are slowly and deliberately tortured to death as a form of entertainment. I don’t know how to explain that one is worse than the other. I’m not disagreeing with you that plant based alternatives are preferable to meat in order to avoid the suffering of animals, but I’m also not understanding why you feel the need to bring that up in the comments of this article. The issue described in the article is fundamentally different from that of the meat industry.
Do you feel the same way about people who eat meat?
I don’t feel like that’s a fair comparison. Meat consumption has a lot of issues, but the consumer, at the end of the production chain, does not eat his steak with the mindset of “how much more can I make an animal suffer for the lulz, and can we take pliers to it first?”. Mostly, they are apathetic or unaware. (Disclosure: I have reduced meat a lot myself but am not entirely out yet and I keep giving myself B12 deficiency.)
I’d compare with much higher in the production chain, the people who devised and enforce inhumane practices.
But people are aware, they know meat is animals, they actively choose not to actually think about it and change their ways.
Even you who just said you know also admit you’re still eating meat.
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
btw. you should definitely be taking a B12 supplement, the animals you eat are fed the supplement so when you stop eating meat you need to take the supplement yourself.
I am taking supplements, but I need to figure my shit out because I fuck up either on the B12 or iron, each time. My first “bad” B12 deficiency came with some nerve issues and I do not want a repeat of that, it doesn’t entirely go away.
My goal is to entirely cut out meat, though. Right now, I don’t buy it for home food, but if I’m out with friends or coworkers, I’ll get whatever. It’s iterative, and as more alternatives become available in public places, I’ll get there.
That’s how I started too, and now I’m a die hard vegan :)
If your goal is in that direction, don’t get yourself down when you hit setbacks. I can thrive now, but when I was first beginning my journey I struggled a lot with eating out, especially abroad.
A setback doesn’t mean you can’t keep moving forward
Thank you! The encouragement sure helps
Congratulations to you on getting there ♥
Imagine being such an unbelievable dumbarse that you think mindless torture is the same as natural carnivorous dietary habits.
You’re calling someone an unbelievable dumbarse and then immediately using a logical fallacy, who’s the dumbarse here?
An appeal to nature is a pathetic defense. It’s natural to rape and murder too, but obviously we recognise that those are negative things that should be avoided. Why do you think needlessly killing an animal is any different?
You don’t need to rape or murder to live, you need food to survive, kinda two different things.
Humans can easily thrive with a plant based diet.
Food yes, animals products no
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
Downvoting me doesn’t make needless killing any less cruel.
Plants are living things too, right? So why is it ok to eat them but not animals? Are you saying we should not eat plants too, because it also harm a living thing and we should all just die?
How about any carnivorous animals (which surprise, we are partially) do they need to stop eating meat too?
You misunderstand the ethics of veganism. Vegans aim to reduce suffering. So far, science points to most animals being likely to suffer similarly to how we as humans suffer, since we share evolutionary history and similar biological systems.
Plants do not share these systems, nor have any evolutionary pressure to be able to suffer or feel pain, since they would not be able to do anything about it anyway
It’s not a blanket “living things are sacred”
Furthermore, if you really cared at all about the poor suffering plants, you’d know that the vast vast majority of plants grown by humans are fed inefficiently to animals. So, by going vegan, you’d be hugely reducing the number of plants you are causing harm to
Finally, carnivorous animals have literally nothing to do with veganism. Please stop trying to discredit a movement you don’t even understand
I mean we are a species have deficiencies without supplements if having a full vegan diet, how can you say we don’t need animal products when not using them causes our body problems?
The only supplement needed on a plant based diet is B12, which is very easy to get.
Meat eaters also supplement B12, it’s just that the animals are fed the supplements before you eat them.
Do you also reject all other modern human inventions?
https://www.saintlukeskc.org/about/news/research-shows-vegan-diet-leads-nutritional-deficiencies-health-problems-plant-forward#:~:text=Compared%20to%20the%20standard%20American,%2C%20and%20high%2Dquality%20protein.
Most farmed plants are used as animal feed, eating plants directly uses much less.
So even if this nonsense argument had any validity veganism would still be the answer.
Humans have the capability to consider the consequences of our actions, other animals don’t.
Lions sometimes eat their kids, should it be okay for humans to do the same because lions do it?
For big slaughter houses etc it is the same. The animals there a tortured on a daily basis. I’m not saying all meat eaters are evil, there are small local farms where animals can live a good life. But the large scale industrial meat (and dairy) production is just this.
Unless the only reason you’re enjoying your beef is because you enjoy thinking about how the animal was suffering to produce it, the two are not the same.
I’m not saying the meat industry isn’t evil, but it’s not torture for the sake of torture. They just don’t give a shit and are only concerned about profits, which is messed up but not the same.
So it is better to kill, torture and abuse animals for profit than for fun?
In the meat industry, animal suffering is not the goal. The goal is to deliver as much product (food in this case) to the consumer as cheaply as possible. Animal suffering is a byproduct of this because on a large enough scale, both the consumer and the capitalists running the slaughterhouses are far enough removed from the animals that they don’t have to confront the moral questions of what they’re putting these animals through.
I agree that it’s still a disgusting practice, but it’s not the same thing as deliberately harming animals for your own amusement. In the meat industry, some people can hand-wave those moral concerns away by saying to themselves “at least the animals died for something good: to feed countless families”. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not (which, for the record, I do not), that same person can’t use that excuse in the case of these monkeys. It’s just pointless suffering for the amusement of a handful of psychopaths.
But it kinda is tho isn’t it?
Paying someone to kill animals because you like the taste of their corpses is basically harming animals for your own amusement.
Yes it’s not just taste, also “food” but food can also just be plants so that leaves just taste aka. pleasure aka. amusement.
You’re conflating the “amusement” of eating food with the amusement of killing the animals to obtain that food. They are not the same. As stated in my previous post, there is a big disconnect in most people’s minds between the food they eat and the animals they come from.
But more to the point I’m trying to make, animals dying in order to feed people is different from animals being recorded while they are slowly and deliberately tortured to death as a form of entertainment. I don’t know how to explain that one is worse than the other. I’m not disagreeing with you that plant based alternatives are preferable to meat in order to avoid the suffering of animals, but I’m also not understanding why you feel the need to bring that up in the comments of this article. The issue described in the article is fundamentally different from that of the meat industry.
Even small local farms are still needlessly killing animals for profit/taste
Humans aren’t “naturally carnivorous”