EU User: needs to install AltStore and pay a Tax €€€
The App was approved by Apple for distribution - meaning it can be distributed in ALL App Stores, the fact that it is only available on the US store is a solely the decision of Riley Testut, and complete bullshit.
Yes, I understand that. But it’s €1.50. What’s that, half a coffee, and ten minutes spent getting AltStore installed. I genuinely can’t work out why people seem so angry about it.
I suppose I’m just wondering why people are so angry even about the principle. Ultimately, Riley wants AltStore to be a success and that’s his prerogative. Delta is his app to distribute how he sees fit, and just as soon as alternative app stores are available outside the EU, you can bet that Delta will disappear from the regular App Store. And that’s fine. He doesn’t owe us anything.
In this example, the principle at stake is such a negligible cost (to the individual user) that it just doesn’t seem worth getting irate over it.
I don’t think people are losing their shit or anything. It’s an annoyance that leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouth knowing that every other geolocation can just install it like any other app. That’s a fair complaint.
Yes, I understand that. But it’s €1.50. What’s that, half a coffee
People are angry about it because you’ve Americans having an app for free and Europeans getting charged a yearly fee for the same thing. This is not much about the value, it’s about the principle and the gatekeeping.
and ten minutes spent getting AltStore installed.
This is the worst part of it all is the gatekeeping, why can’t he just sell the App for 1.50€ on the EU App Stores then? Why would we have to install his AltStore and pay a recurring fee to cover the potential CTF fee? Why not let people get the App from the store they want to use instead of forcing one way or another?
If you read my other comment here and the Apple terms, you’ll find out he’s only subject to the CTF in the first place because he decided he wanted to launch the AltStore, otherwise he would be able to launch in Europe for free without any CTF costs.
They have one other app on their store though: a clipboard manager that runs in the background somehow, which apparently wouldn’t/wasn’t allowed on the App Store.
You’d think they could just release Delta in the App Store and the other app in their marketplace then, but if you want to publish any of your apps via an alternative marketplace, you need to agree to the new EU-specific Apple terms for all your apps, whether or not they are distributed through the App Store. So the 50 cent core technology fee would still apply were Delta to be released on the EU App Store.
Some of you people get so salty because of your own cluelessness it’s sad.
What’s truly bullshit is Apple charging (and allowed to charge) what they call a core technology fee. I’d recommend pointing your frustration towards tcook@apple.com instead of one person trying to cover the cost they have and giving you an otherwise completely free emulator. You’re not entitled to get it for free, or at all.
Some of you people get so salty because of your own cluelessness it’s sad.
I believe you completely missed the point here and while what you said is correct, it isn’t totally accurate.
you need to agree to the new EU-specific Apple terms
This isn’t correct. You only have to agree if you plan do have access to the new features such as alternative app stores, web install and whatnot. The developers can keep operating as usual without being charged the CTF fee and without those features.
The Core Technology Fee (CTF) is an element of the new business terms in the European Union (EU) (…) Developers can choose to remain on the App Store’s current business terms or adopt the new business terms for iOS apps in the EU.
Developers can choose to remain on the App Store’s current business terms or adopt the new business terms for iOS apps in the EU.
He could’ve just decided not to accept to operate “under the new business terms for EU apps” and still be able to distribute a free App on the App Store without paying the CTF, as before.
Besides, even for those who accept the “new business terms” the CTF isn’t always applied:
What happens if I have fewer than one million first annual installs in the past 12 months? If you have fewer than one million first annual installs in the past 12 months, you won’t pay a Core Technology Fee that month.
He just wanted to release AltStore and for that he had to accept the “new terms” that lead to this situation". That’s a dick move either way but the truth is that he could’ve still done it and proceeded to publish Delta on the App Store and charge the fee there instead of pushing AltStore down people’s throats.
As I said before, I was even okay with paying for the App but only if it was distributed through the App Store. It would take care of the potential > 1M download CTF fee and he would profit as well. No harm there. What he did instead was to gatekeep the app from the App Store in order to force people into his AltStore.
What’s truly bullshit is Apple charging (and allowed to charge) what they call a core technology fee
While I agree with you there, before calling people clueless maybe you should do your research because the rest of your argument is kind of not the reality of the EU/CTF/App Store.
Did you read my post correctly? I wrote this in my comment:
[…] if you want to publish any of your apps via an alternative app marketplace, you need to agree to the new EU-specific Apple terms for all your apps, […]
And then you quote part of that sentence out of context, stating basically the same thing I was stating (in the full version of my sentence):
This isn’t correct. You only have to agree if you plan do have access to new features such as alternative app stores, […]
So my sentence is correct, as long as you quote the whole thing.
And - as I stated in my previous comment as well - the developer has another app besides Delta (called “Clip”) that isn’t allowed on the App Store, so they have to agree with the EU-specific terms to publish Clip via their marketplace, but this agreement in turn also affects Delta. That’s just how it works.
So sure, they could’ve decided to not agree to the new terms, but then they couldn’t have released Clip (or only via self-signed sideloading like before).
So sure, they could’ve decided to not agree to the new terms, but then they couldn’t have released Clip (or only via self-signed sideloading like before).
They could’ve got around that in multiple ways. What you see a lot is people having multiple developer accounts with different Apps, you see this all around the App Store with major companies.
Another thing is, as I said, I know he “had” to agree to the new terms in order to have the AltStore BUT, why is he gatekeeping from the EU App Store then? Why can’t he distribute in both places and charge the 1.50€ on the EU App Stores?
The fee might be unfair but as you said in order to release Clip he had to accept it. Gatekeeping from the App Store is much worse, it’s his own decision and very bad taste one. C’mon we’re talking the guy who spend years bitching that Apple wouldn’t allow people to chose from where they get apps and now he’s the one forcing people into (his) single store? The more things change the more they stay the same.
They could’ve got around that in multiple ways. What you see a lot is people having multiple developer accounts with different Apps, you see this all around the App Store with major companies.
Sure they could’ve gone out of their way to create another developer account which also costs another yearly fee of 98,99€. I fail to understand why anyone would feel entitled enough to even consider the developer should pay that just so people can download a free/low price, completely optional app from an ever-so-slightly more convenient store front.
Another thing is, as I said, I know he “had” to agree to the new terms in order to have the AltStore BUT, why is he gatekeeping from the EU App Store then? Why can’t he distribute in both places and charge the 1.50€ on the EU App Stores?
They chose not to. Simple as that. I agree that they could distribute it in the EU App Store, but even then a subscription would be required to cover costs (after 1 million installs, which I wouldn’t be surprised if this app crosses that number somewhat quickly) as the core technology fee is per annual install, meaning it is reoccurring unless users uninstall the app.
Don’t forget the recent Yuzu lawsuit as well. While we’re not sure of the exact details of the settlement, part of what made Yuzu vulnerable to a takedown was the fact that they paywalled (beta versions of) the emulator. Commercializing Delta could potentially attract Nintendo lawyers for all we know. The current 1,50€ fee isn’t for the emulator, it’s for the AltStore itself.
The fee might be unfair but as you said in order to release Clip he had to accept it. Gatekeeping from the App Store is much worse, it’s his own decision and very bad taste one. C’mon we’re talking the guy who spend years bitching that Apple wouldn’t allow people to chose from where they get apps and now he’s the one forcing people into (his) single store? The more things change the more they stay the same.
You can also install it via the non-PAL AltStore or you can sideload it manually by signing the app manually, no store required. You could also create a US Apple ID to download the app from the App Store (remember how you suggested the developer could just get multiple developer accounts?).
Sure they could’ve gone out of their way to create another developer account which also costs another yearly fee of 98,99€.
So it’s not okay for the developer to create another another that costs < 100€ but it’s okay for him to say that the CTF may bankrupt him? Like he did on his blog post? It would’ve been way cheaper and risk free for him to get another account than what he’s doing.
I agree that they could distribute it in the EU App Store, but even then a subscription would be required to cover costs
As I said before, I was okay paying for the App on the EU Stores, but the gatekeeping is bad taste.
You can also install it via the non-PAL AltStore or you can sideload it manually by signing the app manually, no store required.
Yes and then I’ve to refresh the App every 7 days…
You could also create a US Apple ID
There have been multiple people reporting that after iOS 17.4 you can’t do this anymore. Seems Apple applied more geolocation specific rules not only for EU users abroad but also the opposite.
Yes and then I’ve to refresh the App every 7 days…
Or you could pay Apple 98,99€ per year for a developer account (just like you suggest the developer of Delta should do with another account) and sign it for 365 days instead of 7.
Yeah, that would be a weird thing to do (and expensive), but as I said the emulator itself is completely free and the developer offers a more convenient way to install it in the EU via their own AltStore PAL for a tiny fee.
If you don’t agree with that, you’re on your own installing this app (well, the non-PAL AltStore actually helps you a lot in the process). The company making sideloading so difficult is Apple. Or you know, just don’t install Delta and move on.
Even as much as calling the developers’ decision “bullshit” comes off as super entitled. They owe you nothing and get flak for it. There’s nothing wrong with asking the developer in a friendly way if they could publish the app on the EU App Store, but it’s their decision after all.
the developer offers a more convenient way to install it in the EU via their own AltStore PAL for a tiny fee.
Having to install a 3rd party store isn’t, at all, “more convenient” than having Delta on the App Store and buying it for 0.50€.
Even as much as calling the developers’ decision “bullshit” comes off as super entitled. They owe you nothing and get flak for it
You are right, it was a big exaggerated from my part, but still he was the one accepting the “new terms” that brings the CTF and that caused an inequality situation between US and EU users. As Apple says here developers can keep operating under the “old terms” and not be subject to the CTF - the downside is that he wouldn’t be able to launch the AltStore under the same account.
Because…
The App was approved by Apple for distribution - meaning it can be distributed in ALL App Stores, the fact that it is only available on the US store is a solely the decision of Riley Testut, and complete bullshit.
Yes, I understand that. But it’s €1.50. What’s that, half a coffee, and ten minutes spent getting AltStore installed. I genuinely can’t work out why people seem so angry about it.
Where are you seeing people getting angry about the price and not the principle?
I suppose I’m just wondering why people are so angry even about the principle. Ultimately, Riley wants AltStore to be a success and that’s his prerogative. Delta is his app to distribute how he sees fit, and just as soon as alternative app stores are available outside the EU, you can bet that Delta will disappear from the regular App Store. And that’s fine. He doesn’t owe us anything.
In this example, the principle at stake is such a negligible cost (to the individual user) that it just doesn’t seem worth getting irate over it.
I don’t think people are losing their shit or anything. It’s an annoyance that leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouth knowing that every other geolocation can just install it like any other app. That’s a fair complaint.
People are angry about it because you’ve Americans having an app for free and Europeans getting charged a yearly fee for the same thing. This is not much about the value, it’s about the principle and the gatekeeping.
This is the worst part of it all is the gatekeeping, why can’t he just sell the App for 1.50€ on the EU App Stores then? Why would we have to install his AltStore and pay a recurring fee to cover the potential CTF fee? Why not let people get the App from the store they want to use instead of forcing one way or another?
If you read my other comment here and the Apple terms, you’ll find out he’s only subject to the CTF in the first place because he decided he wanted to launch the AltStore, otherwise he would be able to launch in Europe for free without any CTF costs.
They have one other app on their store though: a clipboard manager that runs in the background somehow, which apparently wouldn’t/wasn’t allowed on the App Store.
You’d think they could just release Delta in the App Store and the other app in their marketplace then, but if you want to publish any of your apps via an alternative marketplace, you need to agree to the new EU-specific Apple terms for all your apps, whether or not they are distributed through the App Store. So the 50 cent core technology fee would still apply were Delta to be released on the EU App Store.
Some of you people get so salty because of your own cluelessness it’s sad.
What’s truly bullshit is Apple charging (and allowed to charge) what they call a core technology fee. I’d recommend pointing your frustration towards tcook@apple.com instead of one person trying to cover the cost they have and giving you an otherwise completely free emulator. You’re not entitled to get it for free, or at all.
I believe you completely missed the point here and while what you said is correct, it isn’t totally accurate.
This isn’t correct. You only have to agree if you plan do have access to the new features such as alternative app stores, web install and whatnot. The developers can keep operating as usual without being charged the CTF fee and without those features.
Read this: https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/
He could’ve just decided not to accept to operate “under the new business terms for EU apps” and still be able to distribute a free App on the App Store without paying the CTF, as before.
Besides, even for those who accept the “new business terms” the CTF isn’t always applied:
He just wanted to release AltStore and for that he had to accept the “new terms” that lead to this situation". That’s a dick move either way but the truth is that he could’ve still done it and proceeded to publish Delta on the App Store and charge the fee there instead of pushing AltStore down people’s throats.
As I said before, I was even okay with paying for the App but only if it was distributed through the App Store. It would take care of the potential > 1M download CTF fee and he would profit as well. No harm there. What he did instead was to gatekeep the app from the App Store in order to force people into his AltStore.
While I agree with you there, before calling people clueless maybe you should do your research because the rest of your argument is kind of not the reality of the EU/CTF/App Store.
Did you read my post correctly? I wrote this in my comment:
And then you quote part of that sentence out of context, stating basically the same thing I was stating (in the full version of my sentence):
So my sentence is correct, as long as you quote the whole thing.
And - as I stated in my previous comment as well - the developer has another app besides Delta (called “Clip”) that isn’t allowed on the App Store, so they have to agree with the EU-specific terms to publish Clip via their marketplace, but this agreement in turn also affects Delta. That’s just how it works.
So sure, they could’ve decided to not agree to the new terms, but then they couldn’t have released Clip (or only via self-signed sideloading like before).
How am I wrong here?
They could’ve got around that in multiple ways. What you see a lot is people having multiple developer accounts with different Apps, you see this all around the App Store with major companies.
Another thing is, as I said, I know he “had” to agree to the new terms in order to have the AltStore BUT, why is he gatekeeping from the EU App Store then? Why can’t he distribute in both places and charge the 1.50€ on the EU App Stores?
The fee might be unfair but as you said in order to release Clip he had to accept it. Gatekeeping from the App Store is much worse, it’s his own decision and very bad taste one. C’mon we’re talking the guy who spend years bitching that Apple wouldn’t allow people to chose from where they get apps and now he’s the one forcing people into (his) single store? The more things change the more they stay the same.
Sure they could’ve gone out of their way to create another developer account which also costs another yearly fee of 98,99€. I fail to understand why anyone would feel entitled enough to even consider the developer should pay that just so people can download a free/low price, completely optional app from an ever-so-slightly more convenient store front.
They chose not to. Simple as that. I agree that they could distribute it in the EU App Store, but even then a subscription would be required to cover costs (after 1 million installs, which I wouldn’t be surprised if this app crosses that number somewhat quickly) as the core technology fee is per annual install, meaning it is reoccurring unless users uninstall the app.
Don’t forget the recent Yuzu lawsuit as well. While we’re not sure of the exact details of the settlement, part of what made Yuzu vulnerable to a takedown was the fact that they paywalled (beta versions of) the emulator. Commercializing Delta could potentially attract Nintendo lawyers for all we know. The current 1,50€ fee isn’t for the emulator, it’s for the AltStore itself.
You can also install it via the non-PAL AltStore or you can sideload it manually by signing the app manually, no store required. You could also create a US Apple ID to download the app from the App Store (remember how you suggested the developer could just get multiple developer accounts?).
So it’s not okay for the developer to create another another that costs < 100€ but it’s okay for him to say that the CTF may bankrupt him? Like he did on his blog post? It would’ve been way cheaper and risk free for him to get another account than what he’s doing.
As I said before, I was okay paying for the App on the EU Stores, but the gatekeeping is bad taste.
Yes and then I’ve to refresh the App every 7 days…
There have been multiple people reporting that after iOS 17.4 you can’t do this anymore. Seems Apple applied more geolocation specific rules not only for EU users abroad but also the opposite.
Or you could pay Apple 98,99€ per year for a developer account (just like you suggest the developer of Delta should do with another account) and sign it for 365 days instead of 7.
Yeah, that would be a weird thing to do (and expensive), but as I said the emulator itself is completely free and the developer offers a more convenient way to install it in the EU via their own AltStore PAL for a tiny fee.
If you don’t agree with that, you’re on your own installing this app (well, the non-PAL AltStore actually helps you a lot in the process). The company making sideloading so difficult is Apple. Or you know, just don’t install Delta and move on.
Even as much as calling the developers’ decision “bullshit” comes off as super entitled. They owe you nothing and get flak for it. There’s nothing wrong with asking the developer in a friendly way if they could publish the app on the EU App Store, but it’s their decision after all.
Having to install a 3rd party store isn’t, at all, “more convenient” than having Delta on the App Store and buying it for 0.50€.
You are right, it was a big exaggerated from my part, but still he was the one accepting the “new terms” that brings the CTF and that caused an inequality situation between US and EU users. As Apple says here developers can keep operating under the “old terms” and not be subject to the CTF - the downside is that he wouldn’t be able to launch the AltStore under the same account.