In the past, I only ever did top fermenting styles. I had to depressurise my bottles sometimes even more than once (using swing top bottles, luckily, this is not too awful). Now I made a Vienna Lager and even though I can‘t even really cold crash the bottles (I have them sit outside at maybe 10°C instead due to a lack in fridge space), my secondary fermentation is way slower than I’m used to. Is that to be expected?
With ales, I opened the bottles the day after starting secondary, and it sometimes was a deafening bang already. Now, I waited maybe even two days and haven‘t got more than a shy little pop.
I used powdered sugar (mixed with sterile water 1:1) to feed the yeast in secondary fermentation because I didn‘t have anything else in the house when I found the time to bottle. Is that maybe an issue?
how much sugar ended up per bottle? my book says 6.5g/l for a light lager during secondary. also what are your temps?
That’s about it, 6 g/l. I ferment in my garage and the highest it went in primary was close to 20 degrees, just before it was done (nice coincidence that it did a diacetyl rest that way). When bottling last Tuesday, it was more like 10, and it’s somewhere in that ballpark since then, warming up slightly the last few days.
my guess then it just needs more time.
as another commenter said it, likely around two weeks, perhaps 3?checked my book: it says 4 weeks at 3°C, so maybe 1-2 weeks at 10 degrees. I’d just open a bottle after like 10 days to see where it’s at.
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That’s valuable information. Thanks!
do you have an update on how secondary is coming along?
I left the bottles alone, zero blasts so far. I already had to try one out of curiosity just recently, and it was mildly carbonated but went stale pretty quickly and had very little head retention. So it seems to me that letting them sit for another week or so is the way to go.
thanks for the update!
Will come back with a picture once there’s something I can show off with ;)
You should leave your bottles to condition for two weeks, that loud pop you heard after one day carbing with ale yeast is all the CO2 pressure in the neck of the bottle escaping instead of slowly dissolving back into the beer had you given it time.
Yeah I know. I ever only broke one bottle or so, and rarely - if ever - undercabonated, so I’d say that with ales, I’m pretty OK. :)
Lager styles usually take longer in secondary leave it at least week to pressurize.
Which yeasts did you use?
Classic: W-34/70 lager yeast. I waited quite some time though to assure primary fermentation was really over in order not to burst any bottles. So it’s also entirely possible that there is just very little yeast in the individual bottles to get secondary fermentation going.
Can’t wait to start kegging…
I brewed in about the same style but mainly with S-185. If you measure gravity during fermentation you can put it in bottles with ~4,5°Bx and skipp adding sugar.
It is enough to pressurize it and fermentation isn’t completely stopped (it is just slowing down). After week in 10 - 12°C it should be pressurized.
When I miss this window I add only about 3.5 g of sugar per bottle and 30g per 30l keg.
I’m not convinced the particular yeast strains make that much of a difference here. How did you measure your gravity though, what tool did you use & did you correct for alcohol? 4.5° is somewhere between my corrected and uncorrected readings. For the last three days, I read 5,9°Bx / 1.024 g with a refractometer, which Brewfather converted to 2.3° Bx / 1.009 final gravity when taking the fermentation into account. Your way, I’d have had to start secondary fermentation way earlier to leave some sugar behind. Doesn’t sound like a bad idea though, saves just another bit of work and only needs me to get the timing right (and have reliable measurements of course).
I use hydrometer it gives you real gravity but you need more beer.
But when you calculate real gravity from refractometer you can use it.
The window for this method is from 4-4.5°Bx and I only used hydrometer so it may need little bit of trying to not get bombs.
Now I work in brewery and we use basically the same method, but because the tank caps work as regulated pressure relief valves, they are cooled… It is just more regulated and done before packaging (bottling and kegging).
Doesn’t alcohol lower the density of the liquid, so that a hydrometer reading should have to be corrected as well to some degree? You sure now better than I do, but that was my impression.
Other than that, do you have a source for the numbers you mentioned? Something were I can go look stuff up myself, e.g. when I’m about to brew something very different?
Tldr of this measurement is that density is affected only negligibly (with low concentration of alcohol). Refractive index changes a lot.
These numbers were “discovered” by trying, maybe from some 15 yo Czech seminar my dad attended when he started. I just know that it works.
For sugar I am adding the least amount possible- it has some already ~3.5 °Bx and I don’t want bombs.
This is what we’ve got. I have no experience regarding what the style is supposed to be like, but it’s a really great beer with a fine balance between sweet and bitter components, excellent full mouthfeel and a decent amount of carbonation. It’s somewhat close to a Märzen, with a little less body I’d say. All in all, not too shabby for my first lager ever and the less ideal temperatures. W34/70 lives up to its reputation.
The head collapses quite quickly, which makes the beer go stale rather quickly as well, but it mostly doesn’t live long enough once I have it in my glass anyway. 🤤
