“nobody wants to work (for the unliveable low wages I want to pay)”
If the position exists at that wage, then someone is willing to work at that wage. The wage will only increase if it is either government mandated to increase, or if no one is willing to work for it unless it is higher. Just because a wage seems unlivable, doesn’t necessarily mean that someone isn’t willing to work for that amount of pay.
The conclusion that some are jumping to is the statement that “nobody is willing to work”. If just a single person is currently willing to work, then that statement is false. I assure you that there is a non-zero amount of people who are currently willing to work.
and based on what information are they using to jump to this conclusion?
By definition, there is an inadequate amount of information supporting an argument that is founded on the Jumping Conclusion Bias — when one jumps to conclusions, they are basically inferring a conclusion without any supportive premises:
Jumping to conclusions […] is a psychological term referring to a communication obstacle where one “judge[s] or decide[s] something without having all the facts; to reach unwarranted conclusions”. [source, (archive)]
So you believe that this statement is literal and they believe that “not a single person wants to work” rather than figurative?
It depends on the person. At face value, regardless of the person, the statement is false. Beyond that, it is sensationalist and disingenuous — essentially clickbait. It really only serves to detract from constructive conversation.
And then you spend a paragraph explaining jumping to conclusions while avoiding the obvious question?
The question being “Why do some people not want to work?”?
We both know that the statement is figurative and not literal, you’re arguing in bad faith.
I’m not arguing in bad faith. I’m arguing about the statement itself. In the original comment, however, I was arguing that the wages will only increase if the employer isn’t able to find someone who meets their requirements at their currently offered salary. It’s a market. If an employer wants to hire an employee, their wage must match what that employee is willing to work for. If they are able to fill the position, then there exists employees who are willing to work at that wage.
If the position exists at that wage, then someone is willing to work at that wage.
You sound like a company I interviewed with years ago, who, straight-faced advertised a position they were trying to fill for a skilled technical professional at the mid-to-low end of a competitive salary 6 or 7 years ago…but that was mid to low based on a 40 hour work week and they were asking for 45 minimum, with mandatory overtime bumping that number to 55-60 per week for about half the time. And oh by the way, to put in that OT, you were required to work it when other members of your team were on site as well, so most teams just always planned to put in at least a half day every Saturday if not a full day, if not some OT as well. Some teams also came in Sunday.
I explained to them that breaking it down by the hour, they were offering a pay cut to anyone with the skills they demanded, not to mention the obliteration of anything resembling work-life balance…and ended the interview prematurely.
Now I’m job hunting again since I want to relocate and going to switch to remote work full time, and I see they’re still posting that same job to the various sites.
So I guess the fact that they’re still looking, for most of a decade, means that someone out there is willing to work for that ridiculous wage and schedule?
I’m not certain that I understand the point that you are making, as you seem to be describing an example that backs up my argument. Perhaps you misunderstood me when I said “If the position exists at that wage, then someone is willing to work at that wage”. It is a game of statistics: if the employer is willing to wait long enough, and given a large enough pool of applicants, it is statistically probable that they will eventually find an employee to fill that undesirable position. Keep in mind, though, that this is not without cost, for example, the employer sacrifices growth rate due to the time it takes to fill the vacancy, they also risk losing potential employees to competitors who offer more competitve salaries; it is simply an example of supply and demand.
I’d say that your argument describes the total opposite of the reality of the situation.
By your rationale, I suppose I could have a position as my personal assistant, where the assistant runs all of my errands and takes all my calls and drives me everywhere…all for $30 per month.
I’m willing to wait as long as it takes to find the right person for this exciting opportunity (in the meantime I’ll handle my own mundane shit) but by your theory, because the position exists, then someone out there is willing to work for that wage!
By your rationale, I suppose I could have a position as my personal assistant, where the assistant runs all of my errands and takes all my calls and drives me everywhere…all for $30 per month.
The only thing that would potentially stop you from doing that is that it may end up being less than minimum wage, depending on the hours.
I’m willing to wait as long as it takes to find the right person for this exciting opportunity
Sure, why not? If you are selling a product at a higher price than every other store around you, given enough time, you will eventually find a sucker oblivious enough or lazy enough or stupid enough to buy it despite its high price.
by your theory, because the position exists, then someone out there is willing to work for that wage!
It’s not really a “theory”. I’m just saying that given a large enough sample size, it seems statistically probable that you will eventually find someone who will take the job, even if only for a short period. That isn’t to say that it will necessarily be sustainable, or that the amount of time required to get an employee is within one’s lifetime, but to say that it would never happen seems baseless — it’s kind of like the Infinite Monkey Theorem.
Undersupply of jobs? That’s weird coming from all the “nobody wants to work” rhetoric.
If a company wants to pay a illegal/migrant worker over an red blooded American, that’s capitalism baby! Solve that issue instead.
Hahahaha yeah “nobody wants to work (for the unliveable low wages I want to pay)” really is quite the statement, isn’t it?
They never seem to say the whole thing though.
If the position exists at that wage, then someone is willing to work at that wage. The wage will only increase if it is either government mandated to increase, or if no one is willing to work for it unless it is higher. Just because a wage seems unlivable, doesn’t necessarily mean that someone isn’t willing to work for that amount of pay.
So then why are some people complaining that “nobody is willing to work”?
Simply, it is an example of jumping to conclusions, or, perhaps more specifically, a faulty generalization.
Cool links and all, but you still didn’t answer the question……
Let me be more specific while using your own terms….
“What conclusion are people jumping to, and based on what information are they using to jump to this conclusion?”
The conclusion that some are jumping to is the statement that “nobody is willing to work”. If just a single person is currently willing to work, then that statement is false. I assure you that there is a non-zero amount of people who are currently willing to work.
By definition, there is an inadequate amount of information supporting an argument that is founded on the Jumping Conclusion Bias — when one jumps to conclusions, they are basically inferring a conclusion without any supportive premises:
So you believe that this statement is literal and they believe that “not a single person wants to work” rather than figurative?
And then you spend a paragraph explaining jumping to conclusions while avoiding the obvious question?
We both know that the statement is figurative and not literal, you’re arguing in bad faith.
Have a nice day.
It depends on the person. At face value, regardless of the person, the statement is false. Beyond that, it is sensationalist and disingenuous — essentially clickbait. It really only serves to detract from constructive conversation.
The question being “Why do some people not want to work?”?
I’m not arguing in bad faith. I’m arguing about the statement itself. In the original comment, however, I was arguing that the wages will only increase if the employer isn’t able to find someone who meets their requirements at their currently offered salary. It’s a market. If an employer wants to hire an employee, their wage must match what that employee is willing to work for. If they are able to fill the position, then there exists employees who are willing to work at that wage.
You sound like a company I interviewed with years ago, who, straight-faced advertised a position they were trying to fill for a skilled technical professional at the mid-to-low end of a competitive salary 6 or 7 years ago…but that was mid to low based on a 40 hour work week and they were asking for 45 minimum, with mandatory overtime bumping that number to 55-60 per week for about half the time. And oh by the way, to put in that OT, you were required to work it when other members of your team were on site as well, so most teams just always planned to put in at least a half day every Saturday if not a full day, if not some OT as well. Some teams also came in Sunday.
I explained to them that breaking it down by the hour, they were offering a pay cut to anyone with the skills they demanded, not to mention the obliteration of anything resembling work-life balance…and ended the interview prematurely.
Now I’m job hunting again since I want to relocate and going to switch to remote work full time, and I see they’re still posting that same job to the various sites.
So I guess the fact that they’re still looking, for most of a decade, means that someone out there is willing to work for that ridiculous wage and schedule?
I’m not certain that I understand the point that you are making, as you seem to be describing an example that backs up my argument. Perhaps you misunderstood me when I said “If the position exists at that wage, then someone is willing to work at that wage”. It is a game of statistics: if the employer is willing to wait long enough, and given a large enough pool of applicants, it is statistically probable that they will eventually find an employee to fill that undesirable position. Keep in mind, though, that this is not without cost, for example, the employer sacrifices growth rate due to the time it takes to fill the vacancy, they also risk losing potential employees to competitors who offer more competitve salaries; it is simply an example of supply and demand.
I’d say that your argument describes the total opposite of the reality of the situation.
By your rationale, I suppose I could have a position as my personal assistant, where the assistant runs all of my errands and takes all my calls and drives me everywhere…all for $30 per month.
I’m willing to wait as long as it takes to find the right person for this exciting opportunity (in the meantime I’ll handle my own mundane shit) but by your theory, because the position exists, then someone out there is willing to work for that wage!
The only thing that would potentially stop you from doing that is that it may end up being less than minimum wage, depending on the hours.
Sure, why not? If you are selling a product at a higher price than every other store around you, given enough time, you will eventually find a sucker oblivious enough or lazy enough or stupid enough to buy it despite its high price.
It’s not really a “theory”. I’m just saying that given a large enough sample size, it seems statistically probable that you will eventually find someone who will take the job, even if only for a short period. That isn’t to say that it will necessarily be sustainable, or that the amount of time required to get an employee is within one’s lifetime, but to say that it would never happen seems baseless — it’s kind of like the Infinite Monkey Theorem.
They don’t have to pay them below minimum wage to suppress wages.