Gender is a social construct often upheld by patriarchal societal standards. The being of a man or a woman comes with many societal expectations, and quite a lot of people don’t agree with that. Some people go as far as to not even agree with the body they are born with. Non-binary people, for example, don’t feel like they can express themselves by being merely ‘man’ or ‘woman’ and in fact chose to be none of the two or equally both. Transgender people don’t agree with the gender they were born is as it does not coincide with the gender they feel like.
Now, I only want to comment on the gender aspect as I am sure that you, master observer that you are, can acknowledge stuff like intersex people existing, who are born with both sets of genitals for example.
Now, gender as we know it now has evolved in capitalist societies. For thousands of years the human concept of gender has been very different throughout the ages. Non binary people, for example, have been around since the beginning of mankind and have even been acknowledged by historic societies. The concept of ‘man’ and ‘woman’ is made up and should be seen as seperate from sex. Hence why some people come to the conclusion that they don’t fit in with either gender, and sometimes even that their body doesn’t match with who they see themselves as.
You comparing gender identity with someone dying and claiming to see God is a bit weird as it seems to imply that you think gender and gender expression to be somewhat of a delusion. It is not a delusion. It is not the same as someone suffering from, let’s say, schizophrenia seeing entities that are not real.
Lastly, what is your society you speak of? Is it Vietnamese? As there are a lot of transgender or genderqueer Vietnamese people. They will have their own struggle against the status quo perceived notion of gender in Vietnam, just like the LGBTQ+ communities have done in the west for example.
Gender is a social construct often upheld by patriarchal societal standards. The being of a man or a woman comes with many societal expectations, and quite a lot of people don’t agree with that.
Do you mean “gender role”?
Patriarchal societies often have different expectations for people of different biological sex. A Confucian society would expect a man to follow the Son of Heaven and a woman to follow her father or husband. This is gender role, and gender equality means the abolishment of gender roles.
I don’t think I can agree with conflating the concept of “gender” and “gender role”.
Now, I only want to comment on the gender aspect as I am sure that you, master observer that you are, can acknowledge stuff like intersex people existing, who are born with both sets of genitals for example.
After some thought, I think I see your point. If one considers intersex a biological sex then their true gender should be separate from their sex. Is that what you were trying to convey?
Now, gender as we know it now has evolved in capitalist societies
Please tell me what the concept of gender was like in other societies. Be it Medieval Europe or Imperial China or whatever society you are familiar with.
Non binary people, for example, have been around since the beginning of mankind and have even been acknowledged by historic societies.
Please provide me documents. I may take my time to research them.
Please tell me what the concept of gender was like in other societies. Be it Medieval Europe or Imperial China or whatever society you are familiar with.
Please provide me documents. I may take my time to research them.
Leslie Feinberg’s Transgender Liberation: A Movement Whose Time Has Come is an accessible entry point to this. It is available here and here in full.
I have a genuine question that I don’t think I can phrase in a way that won’t make me sound like a jackass: why not have started with this instead of after an entire thread’s worth of claims and assertions to prove you don’t actually know what you are talking about?
Gender is a social construct often upheld by patriarchal societal standards. The being of a man or a woman comes with many societal expectations, and quite a lot of people don’t agree with that. Some people go as far as to not even agree with the body they are born with. Non-binary people, for example, don’t feel like they can express themselves by being merely ‘man’ or ‘woman’ and in fact chose to be none of the two or equally both. Transgender people don’t agree with the gender they were born is as it does not coincide with the gender they feel like.
Now, I only want to comment on the gender aspect as I am sure that you, master observer that you are, can acknowledge stuff like intersex people existing, who are born with both sets of genitals for example.
Now, gender as we know it now has evolved in capitalist societies. For thousands of years the human concept of gender has been very different throughout the ages. Non binary people, for example, have been around since the beginning of mankind and have even been acknowledged by historic societies. The concept of ‘man’ and ‘woman’ is made up and should be seen as seperate from sex. Hence why some people come to the conclusion that they don’t fit in with either gender, and sometimes even that their body doesn’t match with who they see themselves as.
You comparing gender identity with someone dying and claiming to see God is a bit weird as it seems to imply that you think gender and gender expression to be somewhat of a delusion. It is not a delusion. It is not the same as someone suffering from, let’s say, schizophrenia seeing entities that are not real.
Lastly, what is your society you speak of? Is it Vietnamese? As there are a lot of transgender or genderqueer Vietnamese people. They will have their own struggle against the status quo perceived notion of gender in Vietnam, just like the LGBTQ+ communities have done in the west for example.
Do you mean “gender role”?
Patriarchal societies often have different expectations for people of different biological sex. A Confucian society would expect a man to follow the Son of Heaven and a woman to follow her father or husband. This is gender role, and gender equality means the abolishment of gender roles.
I don’t think I can agree with conflating the concept of “gender” and “gender role”.
After some thought, I think I see your point. If one considers intersex a biological sex then their true gender should be separate from their sex. Is that what you were trying to convey?
Please tell me what the concept of gender was like in other societies. Be it Medieval Europe or Imperial China or whatever society you are familiar with.
Please provide me documents. I may take my time to research them.
Leslie Feinberg’s Transgender Liberation: A Movement Whose Time Has Come is an accessible entry point to this. It is available here and here in full.
I have a genuine question that I don’t think I can phrase in a way that won’t make me sound like a jackass: why not have started with this instead of after an entire thread’s worth of claims and assertions to prove you don’t actually know what you are talking about?
I had asked you guys to prove me wrong from the very first comment. Unfortunately, the answers I received are a bit unconvincing.
Maybe the document you provide can change my world view, but I must take my time to read it first.
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