oregoncom [he/him]

  • 4 Posts
  • 90 Comments
Joined 11 months ago
cake
Cake day: July 26th, 2023

help-circle








  • OK apparently the standard italian spelling is “capocollo”. I’ve only ever seen it spelled capicola or gabagool in the US. Wiktionary also lists capicollo, capicolla, and cappicola. Honestly just highlights my point. There’s what, 70mil Italian speakers? Imagine having to deal with this for the Billions of English speakers.

    I’m not an Italian speaker but from what I remember. Italian Americans pronounce it “gabagool” because that’s how 19th c. Neopolitan pronounces that word, and presumably the “proper” spelling of “capicola” also comes from that region/era. c —> g, p —> b, and dropping word final vowels are apparently the phonemic rules for that dialect. Little subtleties like that exist for basically every phonetic writing system, even ones artificially constructed to be phonetically regular like Pinyin or Hangul. I’m sure if you asked Tony Soprano he would also think “capicola” is a perfectly phonetically regular way to spell it the same way French people don’t think the extra consonants at the end of french words are extraneous.



  • Simplified Chinese was neither a massive reform nor is it a modern reform. Most of the simplified forms are pre-Qin from before 200BC and predate the Classical Latin Alphabet. The sum total of differences between traditional and simplified is literally only one page long. The current reforms were only accepted because they were based off of shorthand that people were already using. When the government tried to do a 2nd round of artificial simplification people just ignored them. Most people in the mainland still know traditional just from encountering it day to day or in historical documents.

    The sort of phoneticization you want to do for English is closer to the reforms applied to the writing systems of minority languages like Yi and Zhuang and the result is that literacy rates for those languages are super low and those who do know how to read and write still use the old logographic orthography.

    There’s currently a small movement of people who want to bring back traditional chinese in the mainland since the whole premise of it being harder to learn is objectively wrong since everyone already knows it. The only real opposition is just that HK/TW are so annoying that people associate seeing traditional online with liberal/chud opinions.

    Also phonetically regular spelling reforms for English do exist and they usually require using a new alphabet and like 100 different edge cases. They usually aren’t compatible between American and British English and I doubt the type of nerd who comes up with these things have tried applying it to AAVE or Scots.


  • I don’t pronounce those words the way you’ve spelt it and I suspect if you paid close attention you don’t either. There are 20 vowel sounds in English and 5 vowel letters. Anyone who insists you can achieve phonetic regularity with the garbage writing system that is the latin alphabet should get their ears checked. Next time you hear some European brag about how their writing systems are “phonetically regular” just remember that Italians spell “gabagool” as “capicola”. Phonetic spelling is less about actually spelling things how people pronounce them and more about gaslighting people into believing that they’re pronouncing it wrong if they don’t match the spelling. Continental Europeans, being particularly weak willed and provincial, are more easily gaslit into this. The one good thing about the British is that they managed to jurry-rig a facsimile of logography with the shit orthographic hand they’ve been dealt.