Sounds reasonable. I think when people discuss this theres a lot of talking past each other. I think progressives see an opportunity to play chicken with supporting Harris until she gives us something for it. Some progressives will go all the way and not vote for any candidate, and some will cave at the last minute because of the dynamic you described. But just giving up now and voting for her while she is doing something we hate is a waste of a good crisis. I’d also like to see the DNC coem up short looking for votes from the middle, which seems inevitable to me. Good civil chat, thanks.

Has she said she’s stop shipping them weapons and breaking US law about enabling regimes plausibly commiting war crimes?
No, right. Please correct me if I’m mistaken about that.

I wonder if tripwire forces get a special patch for their uniform.

Doesnt matter. She’s in charge of a campaign that we arent sure is winning. If she wants to make sure she will win, drop the weapons shipments and she gets progressive votes. Progressives want to vote for her.

“Biden says eliminating filibuster would “throw the entire Congress into chaos”” https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/joe-biden-town-hall-filibuster/

I think it was during this series of events: https://theintercept.com/2023/05/23/biden-debt-ceiling-harry-reid-mitch-mcconnell/

Someone who’d go as far as calling them the “American Peasant” probably doesn’t know enough about their interests to be talking at them about what their interests as a class are.

What an amazingly privileged response.

I think the gulf you are seeing between your position and people saying they will vote third party is because you seem to believe that Biden has been pushing back on Israel, and many of us do not beleive he’s been doing anything but putting on a show for the rubes.

You are framing it as a lot of genocide vs a little genocide, and thats position doesnt sound right given the actions we have seen in the past few days. American forces are about to directly enter the fight with Israel, and Biden seems to be setting up a mobilization the entirety of the US military when one of our THAAD operators inevitably gets killed. and congress has been bought off so no one is checking what the president is doing.

Yes, Trump is a monster. But on this issue we dont know that Biden is any better-- and it sure does seem there has been a lot of lying going on.

ah yes, the tired old “poor defenseless hillary had no power to change her fate and did nothing wrong” theory.

Blaming voters for her terrible campaign and DNC shenanigans is really insulting to women. Hillary had a million times the agency of every voter you try to slam for Hillary’s own mistakes. Saying otherwise minimalizes her.

She still blames everyone but herself for the loss. Thats not leadership.

Thats probably true but is still a guess. Trumps infinite capacity to be bribed-- probably cheaply-- must conflict at some level with his overt antisemiticism. Once he gets enough of his little fingers on our taxpayer money he wont need AIPAC bribes, and then what will he do? His and Vance’s answer to “The Jewish Question” will be the same answer he gives to every other nonwhite subgroup. AIPAC must be thinking of how to deal with Vance and hasten Trumps demise along. Its the only plan that makes any sense for them.

We know Harris will 100% support Israeli demands and continue whatever Biden starts, which is bad enough.

And, obviously, Trump will end America one way or another, so thats a consideration too.

Your allies don’t have to be perfect.

You say her critics are haggling about being perfect? Progressives arent even asking for perfect, they are asking for the bare minimum to follow our existing laws: neutrality.

And your implicit minimalization of whats going on is pretty terrible. We arent talking about school vouchers, PETA, or something trivial and grey shaded here, its a much more black and white and life and death conversation. Therefore actively supporting a genocide in a far rightwing war with American weapons and now American boots on the ground and American interference in the UN VS being truly neutral and enabling peace are pretty darn far apart high cost positions.

If Israel didnt have those weapons, they wouldnt be able to do so much killing, with so much impunity. This is illegal, unethical, and the cost to the western world order and our reputation is astronomical. So your characterizing it as strving for perfection doesnt seem right to me.

And you arent even considering the second order effects to the concept of democracy and sanctity of borders globally. We have neutered the UN, and that enables and encourages every militant thug in the world.

I literally just gave you the list you asked for in the comment you replied to. You’re not great with english or reading comprehension, it seems.

You need read up on what progressives even are so you dont embarass yourself further. You clearly dont understand the basics of what you are talking about. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/types-democrats-republicans-house-2024/

And you can save any further comment, I’ll be blocking you after this. I will argue with people who people who have differing ideas, but not with people who dont even know what they are talking about and are spewing nonsense.

Harris can pull her own lever anytime she wants, and that lever is to stop the weapons shipments. She then earns enough progressive votes to win, saving everyone, instead of looking for all the Dem voters to save her while she supports a far right war thats costing her a lot of votes.

How you get that I am a trump supporter from what I said is hard to imagine. But I think you’re just making it up to have something … anything, to attack with.

You need to work on your metaphors, and your basic reasoning, and your rhetoric. If you are going to call people names at least make it interesting and consistent with reality. Otherwise you are just boring.

Zionism is an anti-semitic ideology.

A significant number of jews across the globe say otherwise. The very foundation of your argument is self serving propoganda. And I didnt read past that.

Anti missile and aircraft systems are obviously the #1 targets in any attack. And the Israelis gain much more by letting them get hit than by making sure those units are protected in any way. They might even secretly shoot at them themselves to speed things up. I would not want to be one of those THAAD operators.

Biden has always been a narcissist. And many 80 year olds do get pretty petty and selfish, from what I’ve seen. We really need an age cap on government service so we dont have to go through this again. On supreme court justices and congressman too. Dying on the bench or in office of old age is wildly unacceptable for such important roles. GTFO.

Its also weird that Trump rallies are full of Nazi flags but Israel still sends them similar bribes anyway.

“Never underestimate Joe Bidens ability to fuck everything up”. --Barrack Obama

It wouldnt even need to be much of a shanking for her to lose. A simple paper cut might be enough.