Presumably because everyone assumes the tragedy of the commons will happen as it always does. And, little red hen, there’s a sense that if one person does the work, they are owed the fruits of their labor
I mean, yeah…one of them is an attempt at a solution for the tragedy. It’s a logical step to protect things from others ruining it by saying it’s yours.
But a fruit tree in a public space is like an open field or playground equipment in a public space. They are there for everyone, and people who complain that the ‘wrong people’ are using those public rrsources for personal use are selfish idiots.
Like if a company came in and took all the fruit, sure, that would be wrong. But someone taking apples to make a pie? That’s what it is there for.
What if I hire a dozen people to randomly, individually go and pick all the fruit and bring it to me, and then I make a profit reselling what they collect?
this is literally a legitimate business in the nordic forests thanks to the right to roam, people will hire (generally thai people) to go out into the forests and harvest berries and mushrooms on an industrial scale (by hand though) and then sell it to grocery stores or directly to people on the street…
and surprise surprise, i have never seen anyone complain about this. Rather people gladly pay their pretty cheap prices rather than going out and picking it themselves, and there’s more than enough available out in the forest that everyone can find some for theirselves if they want.
hell the law specifically gives you a tax break for selling fruits and berries you’ve personally picked, you can earn something like 25’000 SEK per year that way without needing to pay any tax on it.
That’s the thing though: someone will. That’s what regulations, ownership (collective or individual), and laws are for. That’s why it’s not a simple thing.
Idk, you tell me. I’m suggesting that scarce resources not owned by anyone will get used by those who take it. This is a fact. What then? Is it bad? Is it ok? Pretending it’s not a thing is to deny reality and all of human/life history
It’s only a tragedy if allowing “first come, first served” until the resource is completely exhausted is actually a problematic outcome. For urban fruit trees intentionally planted for the public, I’d argue that that isn’t the case.
how do you explain this just… not being a problem that anyone talks about in areas where fruit trees are already plentiful in cities? I feel like people use the word “pests” the same way conservatives use the word “immigrants”, it’s just an abstract scapegoat to throw out whenever you want to argue against something…
I had a long list of animals that I was going to use but omitted it for brevity. Rats, mice, cockroaches, pigeons, raccoons, possums, deer and, apparently, moose would be a few of them.
But in cities they’re already pretty prevalent so I guess adding another food source wouldn’t encourage them
Some apple trees can produce hundreds of fruit a day. No you wouldn’t. That’s someone else’s problem. It takes massive organization and as you can see no one really cares enough.
Yes I know, I meant that there could be a dedicated team for this. Yk, people paid by the state to tend to the gardens. If it was a serious problem you could also just use less productive strains of these plants. You could also just compost the excess. Greater endeavors have succeeded and you cant say food production and beauty is not worthwhile. I’m not suggesting we just put a bunch of fruit trees everywhere and expect the public to autonomously maintain them lol.
Yeah, my city has street sweepers and gardeners, so I wouldn’t imagine this would be a huge problem.
They could even put out compost bins like public trashcans. I wouldn’t mind cleaning up a couple of fruits here and there as I walk by.
If it’s in a public place in front of businesses and such, then the business has an incentive to keep things tidy. So all in all, I think it’s a fairly easy problem to solve.
Plus the employees and customers could enjoy the fruit. Free fruit already gathered may entice more customers for other things. I guess food stores may not like the idea.
I’m thinking about fruit trees and bushes specifically. If you’ve ever gone apple picking you see how many apples are on the ground. Domesticated fruit trees are bred and grafted to be highly prolific, and you’ll have a lot more fruit dropped than you’d think.
Plus you’ll have animals going into the trees to eat the fruit. Commercial berry farmers have to cover their bushes and trees with nets to prevent birds from picking them clean. (And then producing very colorful art on outdoor surfaces.)
I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I don’t think people have entirely thought it through.
this is already bog standard here in sweden and the only real problem is fucking MOOSE coming into people’s gardens to eat fruit, any other animals are too small for anyone to be bothered by them.
fallen fruit just isn’t a problem in the real world, it’s fine.
Presumably because everyone assumes the tragedy of the commons will happen as it always does. And, little red hen, there’s a sense that if one person does the work, they are owed the fruits of their labor
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What’s cool is we don’t even have to wait for the collapse, we can start working towards the greater good today!
Don’t work too hard you’ll end up in jail or shot
Fuck that’s depressing, but at the same time I think making a better world for people is something worth dedicating your life to.
Sorry :c
I mean, yeah…one of them is an attempt at a solution for the tragedy. It’s a logical step to protect things from others ruining it by saying it’s yours.
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Talking about tragedy of the commons on the internet, in a decentralized network, is an extremely funny bit.
Do I need to mention that the guy who came up with it was a racist who wanted to justify displacing the “unproductives”?
To your first point, why? You know what the Internet is like outside the fediverse right?
To your second, I guess you can. Don’t know what it has to do with the subject at hand
But a fruit tree in a public space is like an open field or playground equipment in a public space. They are there for everyone, and people who complain that the ‘wrong people’ are using those public rrsources for personal use are selfish idiots.
Like if a company came in and took all the fruit, sure, that would be wrong. But someone taking apples to make a pie? That’s what it is there for.
What if I hire a dozen people to randomly, individually go and pick all the fruit and bring it to me, and then I make a profit reselling what they collect?
this is literally a legitimate business in the nordic forests thanks to the right to roam, people will hire (generally thai people) to go out into the forests and harvest berries and mushrooms on an industrial scale (by hand though) and then sell it to grocery stores or directly to people on the street…
and surprise surprise, i have never seen anyone complain about this. Rather people gladly pay their pretty cheap prices rather than going out and picking it themselves, and there’s more than enough available out in the forest that everyone can find some for theirselves if they want.
hell the law specifically gives you a tax break for selling fruits and berries you’ve personally picked, you can earn something like 25’000 SEK per year that way without needing to pay any tax on it.
This isn’t a fucking problem.
Then you’re an asshole
Lotta them exist. Always have and always will. This is how you begin the “have and have not” groups.
Well duh. Kind of missing the point though.
What if one person comes in and takes it all? Don’t even need companies, just individuals.
That’s the tragedy of the commons.
So we shouldn’t have nice things because someone might act in bad faith?
That’s the thing though: someone will. That’s what regulations, ownership (collective or individual), and laws are for. That’s why it’s not a simple thing.
So instead of accounting for it, just don’t try?
What if the tree only produces 3 fruit, is it wrong for three siblings to pick and eat them?
Idk, you tell me. I’m suggesting that scarce resources not owned by anyone will get used by those who take it. This is a fact. What then? Is it bad? Is it ok? Pretending it’s not a thing is to deny reality and all of human/life history
Do you get this worked up over kids who spend too long on the swings?
It’s only a tragedy if allowing “first come, first served” until the resource is completely exhausted is actually a problematic outcome. For urban fruit trees intentionally planted for the public, I’d argue that that isn’t the case.
Literally the fruits in this case.
Plus having rotting fruit laying around will encourage pests. Maybe put these into specific areas rather than just scattering them around.
how do you explain this just… not being a problem that anyone talks about in areas where fruit trees are already plentiful in cities? I feel like people use the word “pests” the same way conservatives use the word “immigrants”, it’s just an abstract scapegoat to throw out whenever you want to argue against something…
I had a long list of animals that I was going to use but omitted it for brevity. Rats, mice, cockroaches, pigeons, raccoons, possums, deer and, apparently, moose would be a few of them.
But in cities they’re already pretty prevalent so I guess adding another food source wouldn’t encourage them
You would just have people tend to the gardens no?
Some apple trees can produce hundreds of fruit a day. No you wouldn’t. That’s someone else’s problem. It takes massive organization and as you can see no one really cares enough.
https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/cities-are-planting-trees-why-not-make-them-fruit-trees
A small example of the work needed. You’re not going to get this everywhere or forever and what happens when people stop. The trees don’t stop.
Yes I know, I meant that there could be a dedicated team for this. Yk, people paid by the state to tend to the gardens. If it was a serious problem you could also just use less productive strains of these plants. You could also just compost the excess. Greater endeavors have succeeded and you cant say food production and beauty is not worthwhile. I’m not suggesting we just put a bunch of fruit trees everywhere and expect the public to autonomously maintain them lol.
Yeah, my city has street sweepers and gardeners, so I wouldn’t imagine this would be a huge problem.
They could even put out compost bins like public trashcans. I wouldn’t mind cleaning up a couple of fruits here and there as I walk by.
If it’s in a public place in front of businesses and such, then the business has an incentive to keep things tidy. So all in all, I think it’s a fairly easy problem to solve.
Plus the employees and customers could enjoy the fruit. Free fruit already gathered may entice more customers for other things. I guess food stores may not like the idea.
I’m thinking about fruit trees and bushes specifically. If you’ve ever gone apple picking you see how many apples are on the ground. Domesticated fruit trees are bred and grafted to be highly prolific, and you’ll have a lot more fruit dropped than you’d think.
Plus you’ll have animals going into the trees to eat the fruit. Commercial berry farmers have to cover their bushes and trees with nets to prevent birds from picking them clean. (And then producing very colorful art on outdoor surfaces.)
I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I don’t think people have entirely thought it through.
this is already bog standard here in sweden and the only real problem is fucking MOOSE coming into people’s gardens to eat fruit, any other animals are too small for anyone to be bothered by them.
fallen fruit just isn’t a problem in the real world, it’s fine.
I lack confidence that my fellow Americans won’t make it a problem. Here people cut down fruit trees because birds shit on their cars.