• danielbln@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I think burkinis are dumb, personally, but I don’t give a damn what people wear. This is just typical ingroup-outgroup postering fueled by a proto fascist government, standard stuff really. Also, hygiene? Bro, it’s the ocean, a layer of clothing extra ain’t gonna make a difference.

    • starlinguk@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Burkinis are great for anyone wanting to protect their skin without reapplying SPF 50 every 2 hours.

      • livus@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Exactly, they are really practical and they allow more people to enjoy the beach.

        • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Great marketing argument to sell freedom suppressing items. What’s next? Winter is cold and burkas are great at keeping you warm?

          • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Are scarfs “freedom suppressing items” too? Beanies? A burkini is literally just a wet suit with an overskirt & hijab (although most diving suits also have head coverings). Comparing that to a burka is bonkers and you know it. The idea of something suppressing freedom that is worn out of their own free notion is completely ridiculous. Telling others what to wear is exactly the problem here, and that goes in both directions.

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              No religion is demanding that women specifically wear scarfs or beanies. Denying that this mandate (burkinis and other items) is a religious one, wose ultimate purpose is to separate women from men is at least a denial, at most a support for totalitarian propaganda

              • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                What do you think a hijab is? The whole point of it is to be covered, not to be pedantic about it, like you are right now. The difference is whether someone dictates you to cover up, or whether you cover up on your own free will. And guess which one is freedom of choice?

                • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  A hidjab serves the same purpose as the burkini, to artificially differentiate women from men and create a segregated society where women have fewer rights. Individual choice or not, the end result is the same.

                • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ve seen freedom of choice when a social group pushes their norm on everyone. Either you carve or you leave. This is a very powerful tool to impose norms on people, women particularly. What freedom of choice do you have when you are a 15 yo girl with parents, brothers, cousins, etc who tell you that you have to wear “modest” clothing (fuck that phrase by the way, are men modest with their shorts and t-shirts?)? Either you carve or you break with your social group.

            • livus@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              It’s not neoprene, it’s made of the same stuff swimsuits are made of. It just keeps the sun off more parts of you.

                • livus@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Oh okay sorry. I am thinking about getting a burkini or rash shirt/shorts now that the hole in the ozone is getting worse again, so I’m kind of focused on its practical properties.

                  • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    I would be careful with that, because the ozone layer filters UV light, which can penetrate regular textiles.

          • CaptFeather@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Lmao. How is it freedom suppressing if they choose to wear it? Look, in my opinion all religions are made up nonsense anyway (especially Christianity) but people are allowed to believe what they want and as long as they’re not harming others then what the fuck does it matter? You make it sound they’re trying to force nonmuslims to wear their outfits, which they are not. Meanwhile, at least in the US, God is thrown in our faces every which way. It’s in our fucking pledge of allegiance. I’d say that’s much more freedom suppressing than some women wearing burkinis at a beach. Plus most muslims I’ve met are wonderfully open and lovely people compared to nasty bigots in Christianity.

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              I am not going to argue which religious group is better than the others. In my view, they all support fairy tales and want others to respect or even support these tales.

          • livus@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I’m sorry but it’s silly to suggest that someone who chooses to buy an item of clothing is magically having their freedom suppressed by it. That’s not how any of this works.

            If we get a hot summer this year I will most likely wear a rash shirt or burkini. New Zealand and Australia have the highest skin cancer rates in the world, because we live next to the hole in the ozone.

            The hole opened early this year, it will be bigger than usual.

              • livus@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                The burkini was invented in Australia to help people integrate into Australian culture. Interesting article here.

                The male equivalent is the rash shirt and pants. All these things are becoming more common for people to wear because of melanoma.

                If I choose to cover up for whatever reason, that’s my choice and it isn’t anyone else’s business.

                I don’t even know where you’re going with this.

          • Ooops@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            As these things were invented and trademarked in Australia and nearly half of them are bought by non-muslims for exact that reason, it is indeed great marketing.

            And you are just spouting none-sense…

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Winter is cold and burkas are great at keeping you warm?

            I mean if someone wears a burka for that reason who are you to tell them no?

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Of course, then why don’ men wear them, if burkas are not a tool to separate people based on their genders and establish a segregated society where people of different gendes have diferents rights?

              • rbhfd@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Why don’ men wear skirts or dresses?

                If you are arguing that anyone should be able to wear whatever they want, regardless of gender or religion, I agree with you. But I know that’s not what you’re saying.

      • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        This.
        Also, these men trying to dictate what women wear never seem to consider just how uncomfortable they make us in public spaces and that many (of all, if any religion) choose to cover up to avoid their gaze (as well as other reasons). They also never seem to have an issue with nuns… 🤔🤔🤔

        • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Catholicism had its fair share of totalitarian rules. Europeans fought back for 200 years in order to free themselves from their freedom suppressing ideology. Nuns attire serves the same purpose of oppressing women and I holdbthemnin the same contempt.

            • eltimablo@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Of course it doesn’t, because that would involve @henrivolney, a man throwing a tantrum over women choosing to wear a bathing suit, being capable of critical thinking.

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              In a way they do. Their costume is a way to say that they put their life under the authority of a fictional character. The difference is that monks, Christians, Buddhists or Muslims, live apart from society in monasteries. Hidjabs and burkinis are a way to separate women on a daily basis among their secular peers, inside their social fabric.

    • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      They look like derpy wet suits. Although some are definitely worse looking than others.
      Hygiene is indeed a weird argument when you swim in a giant fish toilet.

      • livus@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        The hygiene part made me laugh, given the photo. That beach is full of children most likely peeing in the water and there’s a container ship in the distance, discharging god knows what into the sea.

        Someone whose swimsuit has a bit more material in it is not a threat.

          • livus@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Now that you mention it, I do myself, but not if there are people nearby.

            That beach looks like a hellscape to be honest, there are just way too many people there. I bet the water has things like sticking plasters floating in it.

    • Ataraxia@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I just stay out of the sun. As an ignorant Italian in my youth I already caused who knows how much damage being taken to the beach by my parents all the time. I will cover up and wear a very large brimmed hat but mostly just stay indoors. Fuck cancer.

    • CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      Saying burkinis are dumb is a really dumb thing to say.

      For some bucket hats are dumb, but some people wear them. Not your place to judge. Also, it allows people of certain believes to have an equal access to commodities like going to a beach and go for a swim in a public.

      In this regards, I would say, they are pretty smart.

      • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Burkinis are absolutely a human horror that contradict every advamcement of women emancipation. They are the symbol of a society of apartheid in which women have fewer rights than men. But yes, people should be allowed to wear whatever they want, including nothing if it is their choice.

        • CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          If somebody is forced (!) to dress in a specific way, that’s wrong. But if somebody chooses (!) to wear them for religious reasons, who am I to judge that?

          My point is, there is nothing inherently wrong with burkinis - the context in which some individuals are wearing them might be wrong.

          I 100% agree with you, that nobody should be forced to wear something that they don’t want to.

          • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            if somebody chooses (!) to wear them for religious

            Not how totalitarianism works. How many Germains chose to be nazis un the 1930s? How many Russians chose to be communists in the 1950s? Totalitarian is a force that negates individual choice with a set of rules, anathemas and violence, with the ultimate objectve of a uniform society where everybody adheres to the exact same ideology. Burkinis are one of the tools used to enforce said ideology.

        • PaleRider@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          I think Crocs are a human horror…

          But that’s just my opinion. Other people can wear whatever the fuck they want. I won’t judge… (out loud).

          • eltimablo@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Hell, judge all you want, even. Just don’t go harassing people for wearing them and you’re well within your rights.

        • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          40% of people who buy it aren’t even Muslim,

          But yes, people should be allowed to wear whatever they want, including nothing if it is their choice.

          except those who choose to wear burkinis, apparently.

            • Fazoo@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              But it’s not. It was invented by a Lebanese woman living in Australia. She had the choice to make it and no Muslim woman is forced to wear one.

            • MaybeItWorks@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              You called them a human horror. What person calls something a human horror and proceeds to do anything but advocate for a ban? What we can do is acknowledge that burkinis were created for one purpose and now people are using them for sun protection and/or personal comfort almost as much as religious suppression. Acknowledging nuance is ok, we don’t need to try to force everything to be so black and white.

            • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              What you wrote doesn’t actually matter, all the rest of us can see is:

              “WHaAAa!!1 wheN WilL IT bE mY TurN To hAraSs WoMEN wHO HuRt NO onE bUt mY TINy YEt mASSiVElY overinfLATEd frAgIlE eGo”

              So you can pretend to care about women all you like, but when your only argument is that you want to be the one controlling them and dictating what they wear, not those other men, you’re never actually going to fool anyone in the believing you. 🤷‍♀️

      • boyi@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        let them judge. as long as they don’t force their opinion on others; that’s good enough. Cultural difference, that’s it.