It’s not a question of “instigation”, it’s a question of transitioning from offensive words to violence, plus the actual issuing of death threats.
Unless you think the UNICEF people (all of whom are smaller in stature) started the violence, this guy is the one who started the violence which in a normal society is the kind of things that criminals do. Him chosing death threats (literally “I’ll kill you!”) rather than non-deadly threats is also highly abnormal (well, maybe not in his society) in that is far more extreme than even a common violent drunk would do (at least here in Europe).
In your group effort to excuse the actions of this guys, you just come out as desperatelly trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Like I said, not excusing that and he should be arrested.
However before you go farther than what is justified by the context given, ask yourself what you’re assuming about that’s context and how it could change
Context in this situation would only matter in the size of the sentence in a Court of Law.
His action were straighforward Assault, a Crime.
As I said, it’s the transition from words to violence that make it Assault.
Further, you can see him using violence against a guy who is just standing there and not using violence against him (the head butt) as well as against a guy who is actually trying to escape him who he tries to trip and pursues into the store, all of which are most definitelly Attack not Defense.
And all this is assuming you can’t just read the body language of the guy and the other people around him - you can easilly see the others are cowering and he’s attacking not defending himself.
Last but not least the thing that triggered him was clearly the word “Palestine” as shown by him threathening other people with death if they say that word.
You’re doing Narnia-levels of fantasising to excuse a guy who is acting in a pretty straightforward violent bully style and who is triggered into violence by the word “Palestine”, which is not normal unless that person’s a Neue-Nazi.
No. I’m entirely agreeing that there is one person threatening violence here and he deserves to be arrested.
However I’m disagreeing with people here jumping to all sorts of craziness calling him a nazi and child murderer. I suppose he could be and hope that’s investigated by the officers that should arrest him, but it’s not supported by anything we see
On first sight (because clearly the word “Palestine” has triggered him and he’s only assaulting people who are chuggers for the UN aid agency) seems to be a violent Zionist nutter (and the violence too is consistent with being an ethno-Fascist), but what we see in that video is not sufficient for people to be certain of it, only at most to think it’s likely.
Or maybe all we actually see is the threat of violence. That guy should be arrested. Anything else is speculation but hopefully the police investigate after arresting him
You don’t have to prove anything to me but I hope you reflect on whether you’d be playing such Devil’s advocate for another person on another topic. A Russian being aggressive to people collecting aid for Ukraine maybe?
You can say what you want to me, but really ask yourself.
I do know many fine Russians, including plenty who are horrified by their country’s imperial ambitions.
Same thing. He should be arrested and served justice for his actions, and Lemmy has no call to lay the atrocities of his country’s leadership on him, without at least finding out more
You’ve missed a key part of my point, though. If that Russian was shouting “say Ukraine again! I’ll kill you!” at people associated with an aid group, would you assume he’s an anti-imperialist Russian good guy or would you assume he’s fully bought in to nationalism and aggression towards his perceived enemy?
If I had to speculate on what likely happened, it’s quite possible the unicef guys were shooting the shit, commenting on the situation, and triggered a passerby already on edge.
Maybe he just saw it and was triggered, the point is we don’t know.
watch the video with sound. The most likely explanation is they said “we’re raising money to support child welfare in Palestine” or something similar containing the word “Palestine” and this brainwashed troll got triggered by their recognition of Palestinian children as human.
Not at all, I entirely agree there is one person threatening violence and he should be arrested.
I’m trying to say the lemmings calling him a nazi and him murdering children are out of line. I mean, it could be true but we see nothing here to support that
Do you assume that these UNICEF workers physically assaulted this guy?
If not then do you assume that even if they said the most vile words in existence that that warrants a physical attack like this?
Funny you should say rational thought but want us all to exercise a level of conjecture as to what happened before.
Rational thought is their code for, “agree with my irrational thought.”
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It’s not a question of “instigation”, it’s a question of transitioning from offensive words to violence, plus the actual issuing of death threats.
Unless you think the UNICEF people (all of whom are smaller in stature) started the violence, this guy is the one who started the violence which in a normal society is the kind of things that criminals do. Him chosing death threats (literally “I’ll kill you!”) rather than non-deadly threats is also highly abnormal (well, maybe not in his society) in that is far more extreme than even a common violent drunk would do (at least here in Europe).
In your group effort to excuse the actions of this guys, you just come out as desperatelly trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Like I said, not excusing that and he should be arrested.
However before you go farther than what is justified by the context given, ask yourself what you’re assuming about that’s context and how it could change
Context in this situation would only matter in the size of the sentence in a Court of Law.
His action were straighforward Assault, a Crime.
As I said, it’s the transition from words to violence that make it Assault.
Further, you can see him using violence against a guy who is just standing there and not using violence against him (the head butt) as well as against a guy who is actually trying to escape him who he tries to trip and pursues into the store, all of which are most definitelly Attack not Defense.
And all this is assuming you can’t just read the body language of the guy and the other people around him - you can easilly see the others are cowering and he’s attacking not defending himself.
Last but not least the thing that triggered him was clearly the word “Palestine” as shown by him threathening other people with death if they say that word.
You’re doing Narnia-levels of fantasising to excuse a guy who is acting in a pretty straightforward violent bully style and who is triggered into violence by the word “Palestine”, which is not normal unless that person’s a Neue-Nazi.
No. I’m entirely agreeing that there is one person threatening violence here and he deserves to be arrested.
However I’m disagreeing with people here jumping to all sorts of craziness calling him a nazi and child murderer. I suppose he could be and hope that’s investigated by the officers that should arrest him, but it’s not supported by anything we see
Yeah, ok, I agree with that.
On first sight (because clearly the word “Palestine” has triggered him and he’s only assaulting people who are chuggers for the UN aid agency) seems to be a violent Zionist nutter (and the violence too is consistent with being an ethno-Fascist), but what we see in that video is not sufficient for people to be certain of it, only at most to think it’s likely.
Netenyahu’s razor: when confronted with multiple explanations choose the one that supports the Israeli position
Or maybe all we actually see is the threat of violence. That guy should be arrested. Anything else is speculation but hopefully the police investigate after arresting him
You don’t have to prove anything to me but I hope you reflect on whether you’d be playing such Devil’s advocate for another person on another topic. A Russian being aggressive to people collecting aid for Ukraine maybe?
You can say what you want to me, but really ask yourself.
I do know many fine Russians, including plenty who are horrified by their country’s imperial ambitions.
Same thing. He should be arrested and served justice for his actions, and Lemmy has no call to lay the atrocities of his country’s leadership on him, without at least finding out more
You’ve missed a key part of my point, though. If that Russian was shouting “say Ukraine again! I’ll kill you!” at people associated with an aid group, would you assume he’s an anti-imperialist Russian good guy or would you assume he’s fully bought in to nationalism and aggression towards his perceived enemy?
Maybe, but all I know is his current violence
That’s the point, WE DON’T KNOW.
What is more likely though, that several UNICEF workers decided to just pick on a random shopper.
Or the random shopper was triggered by UNICEF being there and possibly raising money or awareness about a genocide being committed.
If I had to speculate on what likely happened, it’s quite possible the unicef guys were shooting the shit, commenting on the situation, and triggered a passerby already on edge.
Maybe he just saw it and was triggered, the point is we don’t know.
watch the video with sound. The most likely explanation is they said “we’re raising money to support child welfare in Palestine” or something similar containing the word “Palestine” and this brainwashed troll got triggered by their recognition of Palestinian children as human.
I see one dude going ballistic and a bunch of anxious onlookers.
Come enjoy reality with us!
Not at all, I entirely agree there is one person threatening violence and he should be arrested.
I’m trying to say the lemmings calling him a nazi and him murdering children are out of line. I mean, it could be true but we see nothing here to support that
He’s acting exactly like a brownshirt/Sturmabteilung during the Nazi rise in Germany.
Uhm, idk what the context of “don’t say Palestine again or I will fuck you up the ass” (his words) could possibly mean.
I’ve never seen a UNICEF worker (dressed for work with clipboards in hand) act anyway other than professional.
We ALL know exactly what is happening here.