If I had a dollar for every liberal who has accused me or some other ML of “whataboutism” concerning the Uighur “genocide” or Russia’s “aggression” in Ukraine, I’d be a rich woman. I suspect many of you have had similar experiences.
Libs love this quick jab of a response because it’s technically a sound argument. Saying something to the effect of “America is worse” doesn’t automatically imply the opposition, be they the CPC or whoever else, is completely innocent of whatever crime they’re accused of committing.
But liberals completely miss the point of this argument, deliberately or not. Put simply, “America bad” arguments are about casting doubt on the legitimacy of the organizations peddling these lies. Knowing that the Western media conditionally reports and condemns war and genocide proves they have ulterior motives in doing so. This is how we can be certain consent is being manufactured for a new cold war. It forces people to wonder if they’ve swallowed malicious propaganda.
Liberals get angry when you take their sources from them, and crying “whataboutism” is a weak parry we can just charge through. Don’t get psyched out by it. When every “credible” source spews malignant falsehoods about AES states, we need to challenge those sources. It’s faster and easier than debunking these lies piecemeal, and has the advantage of operating beyond the scope of liberal thought.
You’re not arguing fallaciously when you draw attention to the blinding hypocrisy of the American empire. Create distrust of the Western propaganda machine at all costs. This is important work, and we’re the only ones doing it.
Tangentically related, but I just hate that we live in a world right now where the people in power can make something up, like a genocide, and then direct social media websites to ban anyone who asks questions about it. There is no Uygur or Ukrainian genocide, point blank, period. All evidence of either “event” is either based on lies or out of context photos.
I actually like it when someone says “whataboutism”. It lets me know they are a lib and no amount of debate will change that so I don’t waste my time.
I think, and I could be wrong, the term whataboutism originated when USSR would point out racism in the US, especially things like lynchings, and instead of stopping lynchings and racial discrimination, they just came up with that thought terminating cliche. Again, debates solve nothing. Reality is what it is and libs will just come up with some bullshit.
Perfect example of enlightened liberal thinking is Voltaire. All the talk about equality and brotherhood, and the piece of shit owned slaves and thought of indigenous people as subhuman.
this is a good post
YESSS
I got another way to deal with libs.
“If you were serious about anything you say, you would be talking to a recruiter about enlisting so the Russians can kill you instead of trying to make me feel bad about supporting China or Russia. Hail Satan.”
I will never convince them otherwise. Maybe the horrors of a Russian volley will change their mind.
Good point, since libs preach personal responsibility too.
Yep.
Im past the character of individuals. If a lib is serious; they’re fighting Russians.
Liberals are the ones who usually start with the whataboutism. It always comes as a response to our critiques of US imperialism.
Typical conversation:
ML - “The US and NATO have consistently broke their promise not to expand Eastward and that is why we are currently in the global situation we’re in today.”
Lib - “That’s Russian propaganda. You literally love dictators and watch too much Fox News.”
ML - “Actually, lib, here’s a Western liberal source saying the same thing.”
Lib - “it’s obviously more complex than that. Have you considered Putin is evil? Not everything is ‘America bad’ tankie.”
ML - “Lockheed Martin and Raytheon are quite literally reaping insane profits because of this war. And pretty much every congress person continues to reward them with lucrative contracts. You don’t think that is cause to be skeptical given the US’s entire history of unjustified military interventions? By the way, here’s another mainstream Western “centrist” source from before the pandemic that verifies the existence of Ukrainian Nazis.”
Lib - “Whataboutism.”
Also, (I think) whataboutism is when a counter-point is brought up that doesn’t relate directly to the point being argued.
Not whataboutism: “China has relative poverty.” - “So does the US.”
Whataboutism: “China has relative poverty.” - “What about the genocide of Indians in the US?”
Please correct me, if I’m wrong.
Another way to frame it is that it’s not whataboutism to point out hypocrisy.
If I yell “meat is murder!” at you and insist you commit to a vegetarian diet while I’m holding a half-eaten bacon double cheeseburger and my breath smells like an abbatoir, it’s not whataboutism to call me out on my double standards.
If I yell “meat is murder!” at you and insist you commit to a vegetarian diet while I’m holding a spinach smoothie and my breath smells like a herb garden, it is whataboutism to declare that my decision to wear yoga pants and crocs is an even bigger crime.
my decision to wear yoga pants and crocs is an even bigger crime.
it is tho /s
“Whataboutism” is translated from liberal to normal as “i am hypocrite”, which is true only in case of liberals. We know things have class characteristics. When bourgeoisie oppress proletariat it is bad, when proletariat oppress bourgeoisie it is good.
But lib fuckers are conditioned to their nonsensical liberal objectivity, so when all their bullshit is inevitably revealed as projection they only have two ways of dealing with that: lie or deflect.
Liberalism is hypocrisy, and funnily enough, that hypocrisy only should matter to liberals, because it violates their so alleged principles, not ours.
They can either understand why the west is hated or be confused. Either way, they’re getting dealt with.
