Just wanted to say that both yours and @cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml replies in this thread was/is pretty much a reflection of the ongoing arguments I have had with myself about religion throughout the years.
It feels refreshing seeing it typed out and I am glad you both took it with the seriousness it deserved.
And of Islam, I also am very weary and hesitant mentioning it in western spaces. It faces a predicament where it either gets fetishized and patronized, or caricatured into Eurocentric “just as bad as Christianity” thought-terminating idioms. (In left-wing discourse of course, we all know of the right-wing propaganda.)
Denying the nuance it deserves for a “civilization“ spanning across Afro-Eurasia. Especially when we consider the role of European colonization in manipulating, and exterminating indigenous religions and cultural practices, which includes Islam.
Not saying that this happens here though, but just something I have observed generally in online Marxist spaces.
Everytime this religion vs Marxism debate flares up I am reminded of when a local comrade was deriding what they saw as online Western (muslim) Marxists fetishizing Islam, when it has always been an organized reactionary force in our own country, except maybe before colonization and some small currents during and after colonization. So for any Marxist here, saying Islam and Communism is compatible is like saying Capitalism does not contain contradictions.
Regardless, I do agree that we should be unapologetic about what Marxism says about religion. We should be clear about our stance, appreciate nuance where it matters and remember that on the other side of the screen is another person. Calling religion a “dumb opinion” like in the original comment in this thread is unproductive, when we consider that for many, religion-culture-identity-philosophy is the same thing, and merely calling it an “opinion” is insulting.
Thing is, we can’t tiptoe around some things, even trying hard as we can, sometimes it does erupt with force and the more we pretend there is no contradiction, the more it will erupt. We are not in the liberal marketplace of ideas where everything is equal, marxists do subscribe to a certain philosphy and ideology.
Just wanted to say that both yours and @cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml replies in this thread was/is pretty much a reflection of the ongoing arguments I have had with myself about religion throughout the years.
It feels refreshing seeing it typed out and I am glad you both took it with the seriousness it deserved.
And of Islam, I also am very weary and hesitant mentioning it in western spaces. It faces a predicament where it either gets fetishized and patronized, or caricatured into Eurocentric “just as bad as Christianity” thought-terminating idioms. (In left-wing discourse of course, we all know of the right-wing propaganda.)
Denying the nuance it deserves for a “civilization“ spanning across Afro-Eurasia. Especially when we consider the role of European colonization in manipulating, and exterminating indigenous religions and cultural practices, which includes Islam.
Not saying that this happens here though, but just something I have observed generally in online Marxist spaces.
Everytime this religion vs Marxism debate flares up I am reminded of when a local comrade was deriding what they saw as online Western (muslim) Marxists fetishizing Islam, when it has always been an organized reactionary force in our own country, except maybe before colonization and some small currents during and after colonization. So for any Marxist here, saying Islam and Communism is compatible is like saying Capitalism does not contain contradictions.
Regardless, I do agree that we should be unapologetic about what Marxism says about religion. We should be clear about our stance, appreciate nuance where it matters and remember that on the other side of the screen is another person. Calling religion a “dumb opinion” like in the original comment in this thread is unproductive, when we consider that for many, religion-culture-identity-philosophy is the same thing, and merely calling it an “opinion” is insulting.
Agree about pretty much everything.
Thing is, we can’t tiptoe around some things, even trying hard as we can, sometimes it does erupt with force and the more we pretend there is no contradiction, the more it will erupt. We are not in the liberal marketplace of ideas where everything is equal, marxists do subscribe to a certain philosphy and ideology.