I am 25(M) and never even touched hand of opposite sex, at this point i am kinda sure that im going to be alone in my life, but i just cant get over it. I am ugly and skinny, and as for recent started going bald. Have some heart issues so no heavy physical work. I have no chance. So i wanted to move on from this state of mind, and just focus on work and hobbies. How can i do so? Do you have any advice you can share?
I am 25(M) and never even touched hand of opposite sex
Oh, yeah, I was in the same boat, raised conservative Christian, dating wasn’t allowed until you were 18, and you were supposed to be dating to get married. I was something like 26-ish before I kissed someone for the first time. (…And ended up having sex with them a few hours later; unfortunately, I had such distorted views of relationships that I scared them off.) I’m mildly autistic, have pretty severe ADHD, and yet, I’ve been married this time for eight years. (The first one lasted eleven, but the last five or six were… pretty rough.)
Get some therapy. Work through some strategies for meeting people, and building relationships. The therapy that works is going to depend on you; different people respond better or worse to different treatments.
i never had any restriction in dating or anything, i think that im just unnatractive, im looking like a teen while i am 25
- Get a therapist. You show clear signs of distorted thinking. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) can help you to retrain your brain to identify cognitive distortions that can lead to depression.
- Talk to people in person more. The internet and social media has ruined a generation, and we are only just now identifying the impact in research. A whole generation has spent their crucial developmental years on social media rather than in person. Socializing is kind of like a muscle. You need to do it frequently to get better at it, like working out. If you stop for a while, you will lose it. If it’s been a long time since you’ve socialized, it will be especially difficult. Get creative, and find someone to talk to in person (anyone, same sex or different).
- Meet new people. If you are not meeting new people, how are you going to find the person you want to be with. If you only go to work and the store, you have to meet your person either at work or the store, or hope they come to your front door. If your person was 1 in 100 (which is pretty decent odds) you’d still have to meet 100 new people. How often do you meet new people of the right gender, age, sexuality, and relationship status? How often do you meet people at all? It could take you a decade just to meet 100 people period if you aren’t talking to anyway. If that’s the case, how are you supposed to meet someone? Dating apps can work, but it can take just as long.
- Date people. Date literally anyone that will date you. Dating is about meeting new people, and learning what it is like to be in a relationship. There is no commitment, nor should there be any expectation of a long term relationship. You need the ability to mess up in a relationship so you can learn and grow. Don’t go into a relationship thinking that’s the one, because it probably won’t be. The time spent with them is beneficial nonetheless.
- Improve yourself. Learn new things, get new hobbies. Get passionate about things. It doesn’t matter what it is. People like anyone who is motivated and working on themselves, even if they aren’t interested in it themselves. You may find a partner that is into the same things, but it is unlikely. It is not very attractive if you sit at home and watch TV and play video games all day, especially in a depressive state (which is why the first point is so important).
- Don’t expect anything. Don’t expect a certain feeling when you meet someone. Don’t expect a perfect relationship or a perfect person. Really, a relationship is just finding someone that is compatible enough with you. There isn’t anything magic about it. If you saw it on TV, it almost definitely isn’t realistic. You will have fun together, you should enjoy going through life together, you will butt heads and argue about stupid things, but it isn’t a movie.
But seriously, work on your depression first. You can’t do any of this while in a depressive state. If you can’t get a therapist, you can try practicing CBT on yourself. Check out this list of cognitive distortion. Read them all and recognize them. You must know what they are before you can identify them. Once you have learned them, you can recognize them when they happen. There are lots of ways of combating cognitive distortions. One way if a cognitive distortion pops up in your head, repeat it in your head in a silly voice. Such as goofy or something.
Some cognitive distortions you have displayed in this thread:
- Fortune-telling / Catastrophizing – predicting a lonely future without evidence that it must turn out that way.
“I am 25(M) and never even touched hand of opposite sex, at this point i am kinda sure that im going to be alone in my life”
- Labeling / Negative filtering – defining the entire self based only on perceived physical flaws, ignoring positive traits.
“I am ugly and skinny, and as for recent started going bald.”
- All-or-nothing thinking / Overgeneralization – assuming that health limitations eliminate all possibilities for relationships or fulfillment.
“Have some heart issues so no heavy physical work. I have no chance.”
- All-or-nothing thinking – believing only heavy lifting equals being “in shape,” dismissing other valid ways to build fitness.
“heart issues mean i cant go to gym and start lifting and stuff, so cant get in shape”
- Personalization / Mind-reading – assuming that others would see him as a burden, without evidence.
“i dont want to burden anyone with my problems”
- Comparisons / Mental filter – focusing only on what others have and what you lack, creating jealousy and self-criticism.
“All of my friends already have some experience, and im not… so im really curious and jealous of not having that level of intimacy.”
- Overgeneralization – making a sweeping judgment about all people in your environment being unfriendly.
“Im not from US, but my place is not good either, people are gloomy and mostly not friendly.”
- Mind-reading / Emotional reasoning / Labeling – assuming others will see you as ugly and feel unhappy with you, treating your self-judgment as fact.
“im sure nobody wants to wake up and see and ugly face beside them, they gonna feel awful seeing me, i dont want to ruin someone happines”
ugly
Thats okay! Lots of people of all genders are!
skinny
So you’re not fat?
bald
Patrick Stuart. No excuse.
heart issues
Sucks. Sympathies. How does that relate?
no heavy physical work
I don’t understand why this is in here
how can i just focus on
Okay imagine meeting yourself.
You really want to like this guy. What do you focus on? What’salmost there?
Alternatively: hire a sex worker
Sex workers are expensive.
That said, the right sex worker can be an amazing, wonderful experience. You’re not paying just for sex, and maybe not even for sex at all. Moreover, sex workers tend to be very non-judgemental about pretty much everything, as long as you’re clean and non-abusive; they’ve seen just about everything, and can make most things work in one way or another. One that I’ve spoken to said that it was pretty common for clients to have performance anxiety; although a lot of clients think they want sex, what they want is sexual contact with someone, and that’s not exactly the same thing. Sex workers are common and relatively easy to find if you’re a straight male, a gay man, or a lesbian. It will be much harder to find a sex worker if you’re a straight woman.
heart issues mean i cant go to gym and start lifting and stuff, so cant get in shape, im trying to do calistenics but they are not that good for getting big muscles
I mean, I’m not a doctor, but isn’t cardio recommended for those with heart issues to strengthen the heart? Of course depending on the severity would determine the activity level, but I can’t imagine many doctors recommend sitting around all day for your health.
Also, most women do not like big muscles. Men do. The people that compliment a bros body are other gym bros 99% of the time. Average women do not care about big muscles. Even if that was a deterrent for them, it just makes it easier for you. Who wants someone that vain anyway
… Okay. Most people dont have those. Its fine.
The other comments are solid.
I didn’t meet my wife until I was 32. We’ve been together for 9ish years now and have had one major argument. It has otherwise been amazing and we compliment each other well.
At 25 I wouldn’t have even been ready to “settle down” so to say, in fact I probably didn’t get there mentally until 28 and still…life is a regular learning thing.
At 28 I had gone on a random smattering of dates that really made me realize what I do and don’t like. I had decided I’d be fine being alone as well, which wasn’t terrible. I had volunteer opportunities, a good job, and some local meetups I enjoyed.
I say all this to mean, don’t give up but also like…the biggest thing for me was to hone what I wanted or didn’t want. I am pedantic and picky as fuck, and I had hit a point where I was OK not finding someone but…that was exactly when that person was found.
My advice, you gotta do you, you need to enjoy life first. I don’t care if it’s a video game or a local pub with a specific dish or a park with a nice view. Figure out that list and then seize it at every turn, then hone it and expand it and sharpen it.
Being ugly is nowhere near the most important thing.
- kind
- funny
- respectful
- dress well
- fun
You can be mega hot but if you treat people like shit, they’re not going to want to have meaningful relationships with you.
If you’re constantly a downer that’s giving off desperate-needy vibes, that’s also going to turn people away.
Also 25 is really young, still.
Hey, that was me! Though I’m fat instead of skinny. The reason you can’t get over it is because you want and deserve a relationship. I came to the conclusion that if I’m never going to have anyone in my life, I might as well join a dating site just to verify it, and lo and behold, I’m married now at 33.
Get a nice haircut, find some clothes that fit you well, and take some pictures of yourself doing things you like, then spend a few hours putting the effort into making an honest, well-thought-out profile on a dating site. Spend an hour or so every day really looking into potential matches, trying to come up with something to ask them about from their profile as a conversation starter. The more effort you put in, the better your results will be - if you send every girl a “hey,” you’ll never get a single match.
It’ll take a while to get used to chatting with girls, and if you’re like me you’ll put your foot in your mouth a lot at first, but eventually you’ll start getting some dates, and eventually you’ll start getting some second dates. I won’t say it’ll be easy, but I look back on my 25 year old self and think how funny it was that I had nearly given up so young. You’ve got a lot of life ahead of you, and it’s better with company.
Or give up, it’s your choice, but I don’t think you would have posted this if you really wanted that.
about nice haircut, im balding ;D i tried buz cut and fully bald but my head shape isnt that great so it looks odd, i had some haircuts that i liked but now my front hair started to recede so they dont look good anymore
Can’t say I know much about what a good haircut looks like, but if you find a nice hairdresser, they’ll usually have some ideas for how they can make it look nice. Facial hair is often a good addition if you can grow it. Remember that you’re your harshest critic, especially when your self esteem is in the shitter. Chances are you don’t look half as bad as you think you do, and asking for outside help can give you the perspective you can’t give yourself at the moment.
One of the most attractive things about a person is being themselves. If you are self-expressive and happy in your own shoes, people will take notice.
im sure nobody wants to wake up and see and ugly face beside them, they gonna feel awful seeing me, i dont want to ruin someone happines
Man, I get you’re down and all, but seriously look at random couples like people holding hands in public picss randomly but not necessarily the focus of the shots. People of all types find someone who wants to be with them. The attitude you have is unfortunately very unattractive but if you decide to be (and like) yourself and maybe not focus on the fact you haven’t found anyone but are open to meeting new people, it’ll probably happen.
You probably need some time to accept yourself who you are, enjoy your life and it’ll come out that you have many positive traits. Mean I don’t know you so I can’t say for 100% but standard attractiveness isn’t as big of a deal for many if they find someone they click with. It goes both ways of course, I may have not ended up with a model but I found someone kind, caring, funny and into many similar interests (maybe not all but that’s rare too) and we’ve been quite happy for many years.
In the end South Park sort of said it in the movie, chicks dig confidence (unsure if exact line). Not necessarily the confidence to be a jerk and and act like a douche but knowing yourself and being comfortable with who you are.
ugly isn’t nearly as important for guys… but even if you’re quasi moto, you could date an ugly girl….
it’s attitude, bro… just be into stuff, doing stuff, and women will be interested.i tried to chat with kinda ugly girl few years ago, but shes ghosted after few days, im probably not much of a talker, dont know how to talk with opposite sex, and we didnt have much in common
women and men aren’t entirely separate species
dont know how to talk with opposite sex, and we didnt have much in common
Do you know how to talk to the same sex? If so I have a secret for you: it’s the exact same thing.
well, im actually dont know. I never had a problem talking with males, most of them had some kind of interest we shared, and it was pretty easy to go with converstation, with girls, not so much, most of girls i talked with didnt have same interests or anything i could talk about. In my eyes its easier with boys, but its just me
What are your interests? If you already have interests that’s a great start. It might be difficult in your area to find women who like the same shit as you, but there will be some. And if you’re going out only trying to talk to ‘ugly women’ as you said, they will get the vibe that you think they’re ugly and not wanna talk to you. Every women can just be a friend the same way you have make friends. Start by trying to increase your friend group with both genders and I’m sure you’ll find someone you’re interested in and who’s interested in you.
Well, i have a degree in computer science, i like a lot stuff about pc, coding. I also like art in general, i even draw sometimes and want to get better at it.
This is a problem a lot of guys have. Don’t fall into this trap of putting women on a pedestal because they’re women. And I’m not saying that to say be mean/demean/disrespectful to them either, but to treat them as equals. Don’t talk to women in any sort of unique way than you would a guy. Talk to her like anyone else. (Assuming you’re a kind person who treats others with respect. If you’re not, you should consider changing that to be more appealing to others and just to be a decent person.)
To be truthful, a lot of women actually like a guy who doesn’t seem to be interested in them than a guy who’s fawning over them. And I think we as guys are the same way, but we just don’t notice it often. If a woman followed you everywhere and talked to you and other guys differently than she did with other women, you’d probably think she was fake and it’d turn you off. Plus there’s a sort of chase we humans like. It’s kind of fun, in a weird way, to wonder if they like you or not and have that mystery of who you’re interested in and if it could be her above other women.
And there’s also this element of confidence that is seen in you being you and not treating others differently because of their sex. You come off as confident in yourself and mature, not caring about being someone who is just acting a certain way to make people like you. Your attitude of treating everyone the same tells people “this is who I am, and if you don’t like it, so what” and people find that attractive.
It’s a bit of a long thing, but eventually you’ll get to a place where either it becomes obvious a woman is interested in you and you see your “in” to pursue a relationship or she actually makes a move on you first and catches you off guard. Either way, you’re going to be where your hopes are today. And it’s hard, but try not to try so hard. The trying often comes across to people and smells of desperation and is a turn off, way more than any physical trait of ugliness ever can be.
Honestly, you’re probably overthinking it, which is understandable given the situation. But talking to a person of the opposite sex shouldn’t be any different than talking to a person of the same sex when you’re befriending and getting to know them. Women are human beings at the end of the day, all there is to it is to really listen, ask follow-up questions, basically just keep the conversation going if you genuinely feel interested in the person.
If not, that’s fine, too! You don’t have to force anything just for the sake of it. In fact, as bad as it may sound, it’s better to call it and go your separate ways rather than force it for yourself or for your interlocutor.
you are probably right, but most of the girls i talked with didnt have anything that we could share, so converstations end up pretty quickly, with same sex i found it much easier
Hmm, try talking about life stuff! Dreams, hopes, fears, past experiences (although I’d recommend avoiding past relationships as a subject, at least for the first couple of months), things like that! Doesn’t have to be a shared interest necessarily, anything can be interesting once you get enough details about it!
I once dated a woman who was really into cross stitching. I’m barely functional with a sewing needle, but the more I asked her about techniques, about how she mapped out her designs, how she selected the threads, the more I came to realise just how complex that activity can be! I still suck with a needle, but I have a lot more respect for people who like doing this!
its seems nice, but i think this topics will run out pretty fast if you dont share some interests in common, at least it was for me when a person was outgoing, party type, going to concerts and stuff, and im more like a house cat. Yeah i talked with them about it for a bit but i didnt know what to ask about it. At some point i even thought to ask chatgpt what shouldve i asked :D but in my head thats not a very lively conversation
that’s your problem, not being ugly.
here’s how to talk to the opposite sex:
talk to them like just some random guy you’re not thinking about fucking.
if you’re bad at that too, practice striking up conversations with strangers.
This sounds far more a mental health thing than a physical appearance thing.
Critique: You have to be comfortable in your own head whether a relationship works out or not. If you have a decent job and are respectful you’re already better than a lot of guys. Just as guys vary in how they rate a woman, women vary in how they rate a guy. Physical appearance is pretty low in this and most women are at least willing to give a shot to someone who checks other “boxes” in what theyre looking for. One box of that is not having to be your therapist. Yes, part of a relationship is leaning on each other but sharing the load is different to having to be carried. Another box is not feeling “settled for”. It isn’t good for either of you as settling makes one person feel like shit and devalue themself while the other yearns for something else.
Going up and talking to girls is already doing a lot better than many guys. However, only being able to converse about your own interests and hobbies makes things difficult. Finding someone who shares the exact same interests is unlikely and unnecessary to getting along. You need to be willing to listen about other things. It seems that due to age and environment you’ve had trouble finding the right types of people as shallow party girls are far from the only women around but at just 25 I wouldn’t give up hope just yet.
I’m sorry feelings of loneliness have been so hard on you. When I was alone for 15-20 years, I focused as much attention as I could on volunteer work. It was extremely gratifying and helped take my mind off my loneliness. I eventually met my wife at a volunteer event without even thinking she would be the one. Sorry if this is corny, but I think Gandhi said “the only way to find yourself is to lose yourself in service.”
Looks matter less and less as you age. It’s far more important to have similar interests, morals, and lifestyle as your romantic partner. I know that’s not much consolation in the here-and-now, but rest assured that you will absolutely find a partner someday if that’s your goal.
- you do not know the future
- even if you did, you don’t know how it will FEEL when those FACTS play themselves out
- it would be somewhat unfriendly of you to place the burden of your mental health onto the shoulders of someone else, no? sort your shit out before you get someone else involved yo!
- just by virtue of being here, I can make some assumptions that you are fairly smart, introspective, know stuff about the world and how at least technology works. Have you met the bottom 50% of people… really? They aren’t so much out and about, believe me, they hide (or are hidden away by family members). You may have issues - we all do - but you have no idea how much awesomeness you also have along with those, I believe it!
You do you… nothing that you have said seems insurmountable, to me. With some effort, you really can learn to
install Arch Linuxtalk to girls.But you don’t have to do it today. Maybe define your parameters: take just ONE DAY, better yet a week, and not worry about it. Then, plan to pick it up again (put it on your calendar if you really need that) and spend some time (5 minutes? an entire hour? preferably while doing something that helps make it more tolerable - walk outdoors?) thinking about it. The plan to pick it up later is the secret sauce to being able to put it down TODAY: you can tell yourself that you WILL think about it, but that you just need to be patient and deal at a more opportune time.
Exercise makes virtually anything better btw. Heart issues or no, do what you can stand, maybe even right up to the line of what your body can handle, and while perhaps that same day you may be sore, the next day you will have had the endorphins coursing through you, and breathe better. I never ever want to go exercise, but I am always ALWAYS very glad that I did! :-)
Edit: also a note that if you are in the USA, some of what you feel right now could be related to… (waves hands) all of THAT going on.
thank you for kind words, you are right i dont want to burden anyone with my problems, but i just cant get this thoughts from my head… All of my friends already have some experience, and im not, Dont want it to be just experience tho, but most of them saying that those feelings are nothing that i can compare to, so im really curious and jealous of not having that level of intimacy. Im not from US, but my place is not good either, people are gloomy and mostly not friendly
i just cant get this thoughts from my head
If people could do that, it would be the end of our species. Like pandas who don’t want to mate. Pain is a signal that something is “wrong”. You have put so much of your life into your hobbies, interests, and career training that you have left yourself lopsided and in need of training in this other area. Conversely, some people pour themselves into “relationships” and thereby leaving those other areas undeveloped in themselves - career aspirations, developing their own interests/hobbies separately from their spouse, etc. You are not alone, nor unique in your path - even those that you envy might be looking over at you and envying YOUR freedom and ability to enjoy things on your own, which they (having responsibilities such as kids) cannot. “The grass is always greener on the other side…”
One thought: between the age of 15 and 25 is 10 years. It is too late to recover that lost time - all the interactions you would have had (discussions/conversations, dates, kissing, holding hands, etc.) Between now and age 35 is also 10 years, except you are smarter and can be more intentional about learning things than a 15-year-old. You CAN make up that lost time, probably in well less than half that time. By 30 you can have totally caught up, if not to other 35 year olds then at least to other people like you who are still 25, with your 5 years of intentional training in learning how to have relationships. Why are you giving up? Well, you do you and if you want to give up, especially just for now to take a break, then by all means do so - but I wanted you to realize that it IS possible, it is NOT hopeless!
There is a saying along the lines that to truly judge another person, you need to have walked a mile in their shoes first. You sound like you are disconnected from society in some ways - perhaps you have parents but do not feel comfortable talking with them, at least about such matters - so find others who can mentor you. Maybe join a “church” (the USA method of handling such matters, regardless of “religion”, so find whatever equivalent is in your area, sorry but I would not know what that is even if I knew the country you were in, not having lived there myself), or something along those lines. I see elsewhere here on this thread that you seem to lack confidence in your abilities, like not wanting to show off your artwork. But if you do not step out then you will never grow. Find a way that works for you to engage with the world - it just HAS to be done, and you WANT to, right? So find a way, ANY way. You have already started by posting here:-). But online will never be enough - you need closer, more personal interactions, and to be clear I do not mean (just) women but rather older men who can help you, and quite frankly older women as well, who can help you in many numerous ways to learn to talk to younger & sillier members of the same gender. And maybe therapy if you can afford it, or just self-guided as you are able.
Pro-Tip: do not let your feelings master you. Feelings of jealousy are not “wrong” - they tell you what you currently lack - but they will often lie to you, like if you could just get this “one thing” then somehow you would be happy. But it will not. If you need proof, pay a prostitute to kiss you or even go for all-out sex - it will feel good(-ish) but will not satisfy that particular itch that you have. You need deeper than that, but even if you had a full-fledged relationship you STILL need more than even that. It is easier for us to see that from the outside than for you, who are younger and therefore lacking experience, to see it from the inside and in the midst of your emotional storms. You need to be connected to SOCIETY - friends, mentors, romantic partners, places & people for you to serve at & alongside with. Ideally you would have so many irl interactions that you would barely find the time to visit us here on Lemmy. But baby steps. Maybe start by doing your hobby without letting this bother you too much for ONE WEEK. And then… maybe another week as well, but eventually, see where that road takes you.
Also note that you are very judgemental. You judge yourself quite harshly, and not entirely based on facts - calling yourself “ugly” and not merely thin but the pejorative “skinny”. With this attitude, you WILL destroy whatever relationship you manage to get yourself into - you will find some fault with her, and tell her about it, and she will feel deeply hurt and need to pull away from you. Your battle is not to find this acceptance and love from another person, but… if you are okay to hear this at this time, to find acceptance and love from YOURSELF. You have to give it to get it. Practice on yourself first?
I have no chance
You need to get out more. It may not improve your image of yourself, but it will lower your image of everyone else by comparison. You’re a lot better than you realize. At least mediocre. And so is everyone else so you’ll be ok.
Embrace who you are, as cheesy as it sounds, and turn your quirks into advantages.
Going bald? Who cares, I started balding from 19 years old, and at 21 I had a sizeable spot at the back of my skull that I could touch with one finger without brushing against surrounding hair. Figured I’d rather be bald than looking like a haggard whimp, shaved it the same day and never went back. I’m in my 40s now.
Heavy lifting/physical work: Pumping iron isn’t the only way to get a defined and conventionally attractive physique. Look into exercises to build core strength and arm muscles through calisthenics, yoga, plank holds and the likes. Work with a trainer who can give you proper guidance.
Relationships: Not every relationship is built on love. There are transactional relationships just as well, which might be frowned upon in public, but depending on the source, 30-50% of men engage in them regardless. Might work wonders for your self esteem. Of course if you choose to do so, have your local legislation in mind, travel might be required.
As for generally embracing and grounding yourself, guided meditations are pretty neat. Sometimes offered through yoga centers (it’s a good combination in general and a relaxing hobby that still works on your physical limitations). I probably wouldn’t do either online, having a person to guide you along for the first few times is quite important. You might also run into like minded people there, which can help to foster relationships (looking at platonic here first and foremost, an active friends group really helps to build confidence as well).
Pour into yourself as you would a genuine lover. Encourage your hobbies, and self care. Tell yourself how special and worthy of love and proper care you are, and that’s why you love you and take such good care of you. It will feel awkward at first because we’re never taught to do that, and honestly, that’s where everything begins and ends.
OP, I glanced at your profile long enough to read your post from a month ago walking away from a girl at the park. I don’t know where you are or your cultural norms, but I stand by what I said. Also we are just human beings like you.
im trying to, but whole world just keep noticing how lonely i am, when i take a walk i see happy couples on the street, when i driving a car i keep hearing music about love and ect. And all these reminders messes with my thoughts.
I mean you’re focused on what you don’t have when the universe keeps trying to bring it to you, and you refuse it. It sounds like in some un/conscious way, you feel unworthy. Please find videos on Jung shadow work, the part of ourselves, good, bad, indifferent that we hide from ourselves because we think it’s not ok. But it’s okay! We all have challenges, things we like about ourselves and things we don’t. When we see it, we can address it.
