• Chetzemoka@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    Please show me where I said to do nothing. Why don’t you try imagining new ways of improving things rather than repeating the mistakes of the past? Of the revolutions in the 18th-20th centuries, I think only the American revolution accomplished anything close to what it was intending. And that’s because it didn’t destroy all the existing institutions while in the process of implementing new ones.

    (Not that I agree with what the American revolution was intending, but we did get mostly what they set out to do without thousands of poor civilians starving to death in the process.)

      • Chetzemoka@startrek.website
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Our institutions are not the problem, our policies are the problem. I want to see a transition to UBI, but a dramatic overhaul that dismantled WIC and SNAP before we got UBI in place would be an unmitigated disaster for the very people we were intending to help.

        It’s not the reform that I’m skeptical of. It’s the lust for revolutionary destruction as a path to reform that I’m skeptical of. It’s emotionally satisfying without regard to its actual efficacy in accomplishing the proposed reforms. Because history does not show us evidence that this works out well in the short nor the long run.

        • irmoz@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m proposing a revolution entirely led by the people, as that is the only true kind of revolution. The people who would then rule themselves with no intermediaries. Real grassroots organisation.

          • Chetzemoka@startrek.website
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Well, it better have some kind of mechanism in place to keep the grocery stores full or it’s going to fail on its face.

            • irmoz@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Couple things for you to look up:

              • Farming
              • Transport

              These two things would likely do it.

                • irmoz@reddthat.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, but they also had a dogmatic and limited view of the theories they adapted. This inevitably led to corruption and revisionism.

              • Chetzemoka@startrek.website
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Do what? Just saying “we’ll have farming and transport” is not a plan.

                I’m not saying there isn’t any other way to accomplish food production and distribution. I’m saying that just overthrowing our current systems without an explicit plan to keep food on the shelves is going to result in regular working class people starving. That has happened in every revolution except the American, and that’s because the American revolutionaries already had the Continental Congress in place making plans about how to administrate the country, if they managed to win the war.

                But most revolutions were just pure chaos with no plan that resulted in regular people starving to death. I 100% agree we need new systems. But I’m not terribly interested in living through a violent revolution.

                • irmoz@reddthat.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Is the people’s assembly in session right now? No? Then save the details for when it matters. These decisions are made by people on the ground in response to material conditions.

                  I’m not in charge, so don’t burden me with the responsibility of making the decisions all by myself.

                  But, simply put, make food according to estimations of what’s needed, decided at regular meetings. Decide amongst assemblies from population centers which towns need how much.

                  Does that make the picture clearer?

                  • Chetzemoka@startrek.website
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    And I’m just saying be careful of who and what you support and make sure they’re planning to have these things covered.