I don’t want right-wing fanatics…I don’t want leftist fanatics…I want a place where all views can be discussed with respect and civility. /r/politics was NOT that place. I hope Lemmy can avoid the echo chamber to allow respectful disagreement and discourse to occur (while not overly defending extremists on either side).

I like to believe there is much more we agree upon than disagree…and while not always the case, sometimes we need to take a moment to ensure we aren’t talking passed each other and be willing to listen to understand (even if you don’t agree in the end). It’s okay to disagree as long as you respect one another.

“If you want to be heard, first learn to listen.” - John F. Kennedy

  • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Civility fetishism is actually an endorsement of the sociopathic status quo and reinforces existing power structures. What is considered civil tends to be whatever is acceptable to the most privileged people in society and those most allowed to exist by power structures.

    There were heaps and mounds of liberals hemming and hawing over the incivility of Martin Luther King Jr, for example. They said he and his wanted too much too fast and that it was just rude and counterproductive when they used tactics of direct action and made speeches about the necessity of imminent liberation. To the white liberals, that was uncivil.

    It tends to mean that those falling outside “the norm” can be abused by simply endorsing the status quo as well. For example, trans people face existential threats from the status quo, but all someone has to do to endorse the abuse of trans people is to ephemistically support “traditional values” in an article about Florida kidnapping trans kids. In reality, calling that transphobe names and making fun of them would be much less harmful than the “civil” statement.

    I understand that this instance endorses some of the civility fetish, but I hope it becomes clear that this isn’t a value-neutral position.

    In terms of left vs. right discourse, I guess I’ll point to MLK again:

    I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negroes’ great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s “Counciler” or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

    • carlyman@lemmy.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      I, too, like to think of MLK in matters such as this:

      “Men often hate each other because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don’t know each other; they don’t know each other because they cannot communicate; they cannot communicate because they are separated.”

      “We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools.”

      • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        And he was decreasingly civil over time and vilified in his time by the moderates who wanted to dither about decorum rather than oppose segregation. MLK was frequently uncivil and this was grounded in the tolerance for anti-black violence and apathy of such pretenses.

        In no world was he saying you’ve just gotta be civil and polite with everyone lol