The money needed to pay for all elderly people in society is not purely from the taxes we pay whilst we work. We who pay taxes now, are also paying for retired people. If the ratio between retired and non retired is too skewed the quality of life will reduce for the elderly and the retirement age will also have to go up to cover these costs.
I simply meant that if enough people do not provide to the pool of working adults this retirement ratio will be affected. Most economic systems in the west are based on the assumption that people will have kids. Without them there will a deficit since the pool of older people will cost a lot more than what society can handle.
I regret using the word “leech” and I agree that it was too harsh. But if enough people stop producing offspring we end up with a behaviour that is not far from parasitic in that they will at some point expect others to pay for them, others who not exist.
Given the state of the world I totally get why people do not want to have any kids. But I do not understand why people hate on parents so much when they are actually providing something of societal value. So when someone wants you to imagine what it is like to have a second job, this second job is, in fact, indirectly supporting future you as well.
Obviously some people cannot have children and that is fine. It becomes a problem when there is a wave of people who will not. Again, understandable but problematic. I kind of get r/fatpeoplehate vibes from these discussions and it made me react.
I kind of get r/fatpeoplehate vibes from these discussions and it made me react.
Complaining that a group is being given privileges that other people are not, such as more flexible hours and the ability to turn down traveling for work, and expressing a desire to receive the same privileges, is not the same as hating that group.
Fair point, and my mistake. But what these parents receive is humanity, not privelage. This is like a rich person complaining about poor people receiving economic support. Help should be bestowed to those in need.
You say “it takes a village” but how are you, as a childfree person which is complaining about others receiving aid that you yourself do not need, being part of said village? What is your contribution?
But what these parents receive is humanity, not privelage
You’ve just made it worse. You’ve gone from “Parents receive privileges that non-parents don’t” to “Parents deserve more humanity than non-parents,” then you compare non-parents to the mentally ill:
This is like a rich person complaining about poor people receiving economic support
I am in favour of Universal Basic Income, the first word of that being universal. Let the rich person have a drop in their bucket while providing the basic needs of living to everybody.
You say “it takes a village”
When did I say that?
but how are you, as a childfree person which is complaining about others receiving aid that you yourself do not need
What makes you think I don’t need a flexible schedule or the ability to turn down traveling for work?
being part of said village? What is your contribution?
As established earlier: Taxes that fund schools and safety nets.
Why would anyone assume that a child free person would automatically need anywhere near as flexible schedules? To do what? Tend to your horses? You seriously underestimate how much extra time raising kids take, whether due to unforseen circumstances or not. I guarantee you, even with all the supposed privileges these parents receive they are drowning by the added workload and they are more stressed at work than they were before having kids.
Why would anyone assume that a child free person would automatically need anywhere near as flexible schedules? To do what? Tend to your horses?
And once again being dismissive towards people for the sin of “not having children.” That’s not going to convince anyone who disagrees with you to listen to you.
It’s infuriating that you don’t see how incredibly fucking stupid that is. It isn’t a universal truth either; it hasn’t always been this way and it isn’t even this way all over the world today. Hell, it doesn’t even actually work currently in the US, how many retired people do you know that actually only live on Social Security? Basically fucking none because it is nowhere near enough money to retire, despite paying in an absolute fortune over their entire working lives. That same money saved in almost any other imaginable way would do more to support retirees than the awful fucking system we have now that relies on the next few generations to pay.
That’s because what you are espousing the benefits of like it is the obvious and only system is just a forced fucking ponzi scheme.
Wow. I guess I missed the part where people without kids don’t have to pay taxes and just get free retirement…
Your taxes finance the retirement of the people currently retired. Your retirement is financed by kids who will work when you’re retired
Well when you get old and stop working those kids will pay back by paying taxes themselves. That is the part you missed.
So when I invest in the future by planting fruit trees I become A leech when I collect fruit off those trees?
The money needed to pay for all elderly people in society is not purely from the taxes we pay whilst we work. We who pay taxes now, are also paying for retired people. If the ratio between retired and non retired is too skewed the quality of life will reduce for the elderly and the retirement age will also have to go up to cover these costs.
I simply meant that if enough people do not provide to the pool of working adults this retirement ratio will be affected. Most economic systems in the west are based on the assumption that people will have kids. Without them there will a deficit since the pool of older people will cost a lot more than what society can handle.
I regret using the word “leech” and I agree that it was too harsh. But if enough people stop producing offspring we end up with a behaviour that is not far from parasitic in that they will at some point expect others to pay for them, others who not exist.
Given the state of the world I totally get why people do not want to have any kids. But I do not understand why people hate on parents so much when they are actually providing something of societal value. So when someone wants you to imagine what it is like to have a second job, this second job is, in fact, indirectly supporting future you as well.
Obviously some people cannot have children and that is fine. It becomes a problem when there is a wave of people who will not. Again, understandable but problematic. I kind of get r/fatpeoplehate vibes from these discussions and it made me react.
Complaining that a group is being given privileges that other people are not, such as more flexible hours and the ability to turn down traveling for work, and expressing a desire to receive the same privileges, is not the same as hating that group.
Fair point, and my mistake. But what these parents receive is humanity, not privelage. This is like a rich person complaining about poor people receiving economic support. Help should be bestowed to those in need.
You say “it takes a village” but how are you, as a childfree person which is complaining about others receiving aid that you yourself do not need, being part of said village? What is your contribution?
You’ve just made it worse. You’ve gone from “Parents receive privileges that non-parents don’t” to “Parents deserve more humanity than non-parents,” then you compare non-parents to the mentally ill:
I am in favour of Universal Basic Income, the first word of that being universal. Let the rich person have a drop in their bucket while providing the basic needs of living to everybody.
When did I say that?
What makes you think I don’t need a flexible schedule or the ability to turn down traveling for work?
As established earlier: Taxes that fund schools and safety nets.
Why would anyone assume that a child free person would automatically need anywhere near as flexible schedules? To do what? Tend to your horses? You seriously underestimate how much extra time raising kids take, whether due to unforseen circumstances or not. I guarantee you, even with all the supposed privileges these parents receive they are drowning by the added workload and they are more stressed at work than they were before having kids.
And once again being dismissive towards people for the sin of “not having children.” That’s not going to convince anyone who disagrees with you to listen to you.
It’s infuriating that you don’t see how incredibly fucking stupid that is. It isn’t a universal truth either; it hasn’t always been this way and it isn’t even this way all over the world today. Hell, it doesn’t even actually work currently in the US, how many retired people do you know that actually only live on Social Security? Basically fucking none because it is nowhere near enough money to retire, despite paying in an absolute fortune over their entire working lives. That same money saved in almost any other imaginable way would do more to support retirees than the awful fucking system we have now that relies on the next few generations to pay.
That’s because what you are espousing the benefits of like it is the obvious and only system is just a forced fucking ponzi scheme.