I don’t understand American “left” parties, it always feels like they have a skewed understanding of what socialism/communism is and just always resort to infighting or separatist tendencies. The DSA has always felt like it’s just Democrats with a different face and branding, trying desperately to convince people that they are truly socialists, but as soon as they gain any amount of power they do a 180.
The DSA has always felt like it’s just Democrats with a different face and branding, trying desperately to convince people that they are truly socialists
The DSA has always felt like it’s just Democrats with a different face and branding, trying desperately to convince people that they are truly socialists, but as soon as they gain any amount of power they do a 180.
This is exactly how it looks from outside USA, succdem safety valve.
I agree with a small change: DSA has a majority that are essentially union Democrats and the left half of the NPIC. This issue arrises in part from the national org not having required education about socialism/communism and national being lax on their charter enforcement. This creates a situation where chapters can be flooded with members whose goal is to use the org as a free labor pool for their NGO, and it is a huge problem. Because the DSA is democratic (not demcent) this allows larger chapters like NYC, which is full of rightwing (relative to DSA) NPIC workers, to have huge sway on the national org. The Working Families Party is a good example of how they use DSA as an uneducated labor pool.
The reason why I say a majority is because there are real communists in the org too. These are the groups that spearheaded being anti-Zionist, focus on mass line, run political education and actually practice Marxism. Check out Red Star if you want to learn more about them.
If I may ask you, how exactly do you see the national org fixing the issue of not enforcing this more revolutionary program? What changes are occurring at the small quantative level that, in your analysis, acts as evidence that a qualitative shift is happening that will transform the DSA from a reformist organization into a revolutionary one?
Thank you, the apology is for anyone, because I am cranky, lately, and none of it is my comrades’ fault. And im just exhausted with political Jedi mind tricks.
If there is this much of a swing in what the DSA is then I don’t see why people would support anything under their umbrella in the first place. I see videos like this and I just cringe.
You don’t see a reason to support any aspect of it because some chapters are more rightward than others? Revolution doesn’t appear spontaneously within the masses; Lenin and other revs still worked with unionists and similar forces when their goals aligned, eventually flipping them into demcent. If an org refuses to interact with others because they don’t perfectly align, they will never reach any critical mass.
It was the bolsheviks that had to adapt to other groups, not the other way around. Red Star can have communists/MLs, be anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist all they want, but they will be cast aside as soon as the heavily right leaning portion of the DSA gains power and reveal their true intentions. You are blinding yourself if you think the DSA won’t succumb to Capital or influence from the Democrats. Sure you have chapters that are openly communist, but where are they in the elections? All I see is reformists winning elections, not true communists.
You are blinding yourself if you think the DSA won’t succumb to Capital or influence from the Democrats.
The heavy right side already is in power in many chapters, and attempts to expel communists aside have failed, and all the while the communist block has continued to grow, especially as the contradictions have become more sharp. At the same time the right to become more openly hostile, pushing neutral and new members to avoid them. Meanwhile, the Democrats (including AOC) have also become more directly hostile to DSA as a whole, and that contradiction helps drive members leftward as well.
Sure you have chapters that are openly communist, but where are they in the elections? All I see is reformists winning elections, not true communists.
Change doesn’t come from elections. Basically every liberal that joins usually starts at electoralism, and those that are already deep in NPIC never leave. Electoralism at best can be used for agitative purposes. Class conciousness in the masses is built by communicating and interacting directly with them, and once we reach critical mass in that then electoral work becomes a useful tool. The communist members do agitational and educational work to build that. One of the goals of DSA is to build a political party greater than the incorrect idea that political parties only function within current government and elections.
This all being said, I recognize that there is a risk to working with liberals, always.
I don’t understand American “left” parties, it always feels like they have a skewed understanding of what socialism/communism is and just always resort to infighting or separatist tendencies. The DSA has always felt like it’s just Democrats with a different face and branding, trying desperately to convince people that they are truly socialists, but as soon as they gain any amount of power they do a 180.
Because it is.
This is exactly how it looks from outside USA, succdem safety valve.
It’s how it looks inside, too.
I agree with a small change: DSA has a majority that are essentially union Democrats and the left half of the NPIC. This issue arrises in part from the national org not having required education about socialism/communism and national being lax on their charter enforcement. This creates a situation where chapters can be flooded with members whose goal is to use the org as a free labor pool for their NGO, and it is a huge problem. Because the DSA is democratic (not demcent) this allows larger chapters like NYC, which is full of rightwing (relative to DSA) NPIC workers, to have huge sway on the national org. The Working Families Party is a good example of how they use DSA as an uneducated labor pool.
The reason why I say a majority is because there are real communists in the org too. These are the groups that spearheaded being anti-Zionist, focus on mass line, run political education and actually practice Marxism. Check out Red Star if you want to learn more about them.
If I may ask you, how exactly do you see the national org fixing the issue of not enforcing this more revolutionary program? What changes are occurring at the small quantative level that, in your analysis, acts as evidence that a qualitative shift is happening that will transform the DSA from a reformist organization into a revolutionary one?
No no, Trotsky was a good guy. What list?!
I was asking the question in good faith, as I want to actually learn more of the comrade has more information I’m not privy to.
I know you were. I was in a petulant mood, and owe my comrades an apology. I’m sorry.
No need to apologize, just wanted to clear up my intentions in case they were too vague.
Thank you, the apology is for anyone, because I am cranky, lately, and none of it is my comrades’ fault. And im just exhausted with political Jedi mind tricks.
I eagerly await an answer, with you.
Stay safe comrade, one step at a time.
If there is this much of a swing in what the DSA is then I don’t see why people would support anything under their umbrella in the first place. I see videos like this and I just cringe.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
You don’t see a reason to support any aspect of it because some chapters are more rightward than others? Revolution doesn’t appear spontaneously within the masses; Lenin and other revs still worked with unionists and similar forces when their goals aligned, eventually flipping them into demcent. If an org refuses to interact with others because they don’t perfectly align, they will never reach any critical mass.
It was the bolsheviks that had to adapt to other groups, not the other way around. Red Star can have communists/MLs, be anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist all they want, but they will be cast aside as soon as the heavily right leaning portion of the DSA gains power and reveal their true intentions. You are blinding yourself if you think the DSA won’t succumb to Capital or influence from the Democrats. Sure you have chapters that are openly communist, but where are they in the elections? All I see is reformists winning elections, not true communists.
The heavy right side already is in power in many chapters, and attempts to expel communists aside have failed, and all the while the communist block has continued to grow, especially as the contradictions have become more sharp. At the same time the right to become more openly hostile, pushing neutral and new members to avoid them. Meanwhile, the Democrats (including AOC) have also become more directly hostile to DSA as a whole, and that contradiction helps drive members leftward as well.
Change doesn’t come from elections. Basically every liberal that joins usually starts at electoralism, and those that are already deep in NPIC never leave. Electoralism at best can be used for agitative purposes. Class conciousness in the masses is built by communicating and interacting directly with them, and once we reach critical mass in that then electoral work becomes a useful tool. The communist members do agitational and educational work to build that. One of the goals of DSA is to build a political party greater than the incorrect idea that political parties only function within current government and elections.
This all being said, I recognize that there is a risk to working with liberals, always.