In debate with a fervently liberal friend, the concept of sources will inevitably come up. I haven’t had the displeasure of having to argue about China being socialist or the USSR not being literal Hell on earth with my friends yet, but I can tell that things are getting to a boiling point where their takes will inevitably come into conflict with mine. He is already made claims about ‘China colonizing Africa’ and that ‘Mongolia should be in NATO because it is afraid of China’ and of course Xinjiang and Tiananmen Square propaganda.
Of course, when the liberal says ‘sources,’ they don’t mean theory or logic or any of that nonsense. The liberal doesn’t need those things on account of their politics being based on vibes. No, the liberal wants trustworthy, unbiased sources. If I link China Daily News, it’s of course gonna be a propaganda outlet with no actual evidence behind it. If I link AP, Reuters, or ABC, it’s of course unbiased reporting that may have fell through once or twice, but is generally trustworthy. Their journalists are bought, paid for, natural liars, whereas our journalists are upstanding pillars of truth. The CIA may buy a few here and there, and even admit to it (Operation Mockingbird) but of course not all of them are lying, that’d be ridiculous!
Essentially, I’m asking for sources that support the Marxist-Leninist outlook of the world that would look good for a liberal, someone who normally looks for Amnesty International, or the UN, or NATO for citations. They don’t have to be explicitly ML, and honestly it’s better if they aren’t, but I’d just need some trustworthy sources on something like disproving the Uyghur Genocide myth or something showing that Stalin wasn’t Hitler².
To give you an idea of how bad he is, I mentioned to him that the CIA released a document claiming they found no evidence of voter fraud in Maduro’s election and he:
- Laughed and said: “Yeah there was no election fraud, like there’s no election fraud in North Korea.” Implying that the people were somehow too scared to vote against Maduro but weren’t otherwise coerced or frauded, and no evidence of that was found.
- Immediately started huffing the largest cloud of copium he could find by blaming it on the token American liberal scapegoat: “Wait, who made that claim? Was it Trump? I thought the US has hated Maduro for a long time.”
Of course I understand that predominant Western propaganda outlets will not have pro-China or pro-USSR information on them. I’m not expecting Reuters to have published an article on why China is socialist and there is no Uyghur genocide, I just need something that would pass the smell test to a liberal. It can be number data on Africa-China economic relations, global poverty data, climate data, or reported information about certain events that appear to counter the Western narrative. A good example of this is Fitzpatrick’s The Shortest History of the Soviet Union, as she is a liberal historian but delivers a predominantly unbiased history of the USSR in the perspective of the time. Thank you all in advance!


I mean, yeah, kinda. It didn’t really start like that of course. I came to Marxism because I was philosophically examining my morality, and I could not reconcile the concept of third world exploitation with my liberalism. I also like to examine the world scientifically, and Marxism applies to that essentially perfectly. I would’ve never become a Marxist-Leninist, though, were it not for some of our comrades debunking atrocity propaganda on its own right. I would have never come to the conclusion that I had to take up reading into the real history of Marxist nations, nor would I have ever tried to apply scientific Marxist theory to the world at large.
I almost want to believe my friend is much like I was, in a way. Believes the working class should be armed and in the fight against fascism and such, but at the same time he is very liberal. Wants Social Democracy because of a fetishization of the ‘Nordic Model’ as “the best system we have” at governing a nation. He thinks so similar to the way that I thought back then that I believe there’s got to be something there to exploit.
Even if I cannot convince him, we have a mutual friend, he’s more to the left of the first one by a good margin. Probably best described as a centrist (and not the horseshoe theory kind, just a less politically enlightened somewhat anti-America individual with previous exposure to anti-capitalism). I would like to pull him further left as well, make him into a proper socialist, actually do something with him and the other comrades in my friend group, but it doesn’t help me when friend 1 is mouthing off about Chinese colonization, Tibet or Xinjiang or some other nonsense dreck.
This thread has given me some amazing resources to assist in those endeavors, so I guess I just hope it goes well.