This is not representative of christians around the world. It isn’t even representative of christians in the US. You are highlighting evil/uninformed behavior and increasing its harm.
Why would an atheism community highlight Christians just chilling? Block it if you don’t like seeing nonbelievers kvetch about jackass religious people.
Atheism isn’t “about” anything. It’s the lack of belief in a god, gods, or spiritual beings. There is no doctrine or institution, that’s the point. The community making fun of dumb believers seems on-brand, imo, especially when they’re a huge part of the acceleration towards fascism around the world. Christian nationalists are a threat, and showing them as the hypocritical morons they are pushes back against their hatred.
It’s about being allowed to not believe in God, I’d say. Beware of the ultra nationalist American is much different from not believing or believing in the being no god.
It’s just the branding that annoys me. If this was called lunatic Ville it would be accurate and fine. What’s inside ain’t memes or atheists being atheists after all.
Ex-Christian here. Your points are mostly well taken; I just think you wildly misjudge how Christianity is seen from outside, and how these days its spokepersons are by default the worst-behaved among you because the “good” ones never get the mic, or don’t take it.
Atheists, including myself, come from the entire spectrum of religious experience, all the way from no religion whatsoever to that little church down in the backwoods of the South whose members eat, drink, and sleep religion, absolutely certain that they alone, and no one else, are going to be part of that 144,000 because not only did they not really read it, they don’t math.
There is no such denominator as “atheists being atheists” anywhere. I was deeply into it for thirty-five years and am even more deeply grateful every day I wake up that I am out of that mental jail. Someone else might have endured ongoing manipulation, cruelty, ostracization, or even outright abuse from religious groups. Someone else might be none of the above and just think we’re all a disparate group of loons that were either born wise (always atheist) or somehow came to our senses.
There is NO one size fits all. There is NO one kind of atheist. There is NO “atheists being atheists” sitting around talking about a hole in the universe where they see nothing and you see your god. THERE IS NO ATHEIST BRANDING.
This thread is quite mild compared to some I’ve seen. You seem to have the totality of atheism confused with what sounds like one person’s individual kneejerk reaction to their own bad case of Christianity. And you’ve dared to define for a group of atheists what atheism is. Selah.
You know what I don’t post about? My dad. Still Christian. He’s laid back. He wasn’t sure about things like LGBT+ but he’s generally an accepting guy, and as US culture has grown more accepting, so has he. He doesn’t give me shit about religion - feels it’s one of those things that everyone has to decide what to do for themselves.
So I don’t post about him, or talk about his religion much, because it’s fine.
I do talk about the Christians who try and shit on our human rights, though, because that has real consequences. And talking about it lets us vent and let off some steam, finding community in our shared experiences.
Like many places where people complain about bad things, you shouldn’t necessarily read them complaining about the shitty parts of a subject as them complaining about the entire subject.
For the Christians who are following the teachings of Jesus - what he actually purportedly said and taught - good on yer, we ain’t complaining about you (well, most of us probably aren’t).
I tend to believe that ALL religion is generally bad. But I look at Sikhs for example - those folks are not perfect, I’m sure, but you see story after story after story about them helping fellow humans - offering free food no questions asked - taking care of people. I aspire to be like that, religion or no.
For the Christians doing that? Awesome, you rock. Those are not the Christians we’re generally bitching about.
You might see… minorities bitching about racism or women bitching about toxic male culture. #notallwhites and #notallmen - just don’t take offense if you’re not one of the bad ones.
Right? It’s a god damn shame that I have sane and compassionate friends and family who get lumped in with these lunatics.
Assholes who exist just to be assholes will reach for any excuse they can hook their fangs into and suck the life out of it. Narcissists don’t care about what they have to defile if it means they get to keep getting a pass for it. And the people who’ve been abused by them keep seeking abusers and emulating them, because they’ve had any critical thought or independence wrung out of them until their souls are bone dry and flattened into fragile and paper-thin rehearsals of rage. And then they go out looking for fights because the constructed social paradigm falls apart if they’re ever anything BUT the fucking victims.
I hate cults. I hate the people who start them, run them, and perpetuate them. And I hate that they turn their victims into more conspirators to keep the scam running.
I’ve never met a Christian who acted like Jesus. I have however been told at the age of 12 while in a crowded room full of Christians that I need to disown my lesbian parents or I would go to hell. And the people in the room backed this person up.
The people who forced my tribe to move from Georgia to Oklahoma on foot in winter also claimed to have been given that land from god.
Religion is a disease that brings out the worst in people.
If you’re a true follower of christ, the correct response here would be “I agree, the temptation of sin and Satan is stronger than ever and I do all I can to remind my fellows in faith of the path Jesus has already laid out for us, which includes loving and caring for all of our neighbors as our own, and I remind those straying from the path that we can deceive ourselves, but not God, and I speak out so that their transgressions do not corrupt our message.”
Instead you get defensive and whine and develop a persecution complex while ignoring that us heathens follow your faiths basic teachings better than you and don’t need the threat of eternal damnation to do it. I’m agnostic and haven’t read the bible since grade school, and I can guarantee I’ll walk through the pearly gates before your entire congregation does if the Christians end up being right when I kick the bucket.
Sincerely hope the light of the lord can find you in this time of doubt in the faith and bring you away from your current life of sin 🙏
It is representative of most people who call themselves Christians, but not the ones who actually care about being decent. The latter group seems in the minority.
If the preponderance of American Christians were not like the person in the OP, I think we would live in a different, better, world.
Are you a Christian? I was a very serious Catholic until my early 20s. I found the doctrine to lack an intellectual rigor, though, and became disillusioned. I don’t want to argue with you about the existence of God, I’ve got that out of my system long ago. What do you think about the very public Christians of today, who encourage us to hate and to disregard our fellow man? It’s a sad state of affairs, isn’t it? Public Christianity and American Capitalism are intertwined at this point. Doesn’t it disgust you? It disgusts me. Even though I no longer believe in a God, I think many of the teaching of the church are good. Even though I no longer see myself as a part of it, I am still saddened when I see the Christian doctrine exploited by these pigs.
The current Pope is a step in the right direction, but I, an American, know self-described Catholics who hate him and say he’s wrong. Isn’t that something? I tell them that they are heretics but it doesn’t matter to them. Again, I’m an apostate, but I find their attitude extremely offensive!
In 2020-2021 I was following Kristin Kobes Du Mez during her book tour for Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation and this took me on a rabbit hole of Evangelical sociologists following the rise of white Christian nationalism in the US.
Curiously, white Christian nationalism is a sect that intersects with multiple denominations. Most of them are fundamentalist Christian, though some of them are conservative branches of mainlines like Methodists or Roman Catholics. The conservative majority of SCOTUS, for instance, are all Catholic, and white Christian nationalist. (They’re also members of the Federalist Society and were selected by Leonard Leo. It’s a tight club.)
But one of the predictions I remember hearing multiple times is that white Christian nationalism will deliver a fell blow to the Body of Christ (to all of Christendom), as Christians everywhere will be judged by the actions and behaviors of those within the white Christian nationalist movement.
This was before the Seven Mountain Mandate, but around when pressure from ministries convinced the state of Uganda to make aggravated homosexuality a capital crime. (According to Wikipedia, legislature was passed in 2023)
Similarly, we expect all Americans are going to be judged for the wrongdoings of MAGA and the Trump regime, including the atrocities currently being committed by ICE or the US armed forces. Just as all Germans were held at fault internationally for the wrongdoings of the Nazis and the German Reich. (Since we expect the US to default on its debt and the collapse of the economy, it’s going to suck, and not a single soul outside the US is going to want to help us as we starve.)
Already, alphas and zoomers are steering clear of Christianity for its association with Trump. Those who are being raised in Christian families and communities are, in record numbers, looking to escape and deconstruct. Christianity is now linked by association with family abuse, much with the help of the publicity of the white Christian nationalist movement, which commonly advises authoritarian household organization and parenting.
So, sure. #NotAllChristians. On the other hand, liberal ministries are now tiny, with many of their flock from the twentieth century turning into nones or outright atheists. And mainline Christian ministries still show an awful lot of hate towards women and LGBT+.
This isn’t fully reflected in their congregations, who are a lot more divided on these issues, but it really doesn’t help that the ministers and elders are on the side of bigotry. That positions them closer to the white Christian nationalists than it does the rest of liberal society.
Personally. I follow some Christians who believe in liberal civilization and universal civil rights. I know who the Universalists are. Yet the preachers and influencers of the Christian nationalist movement are having their voice amplified by the far-right propaganda machine. They’re getting sponsorship from the oligarchs who want to dismantle democracy and literally take over the world. And this is going to inform what the general public thinks about Christians, and Christianity as a whole.
I’d say Christianity is going to wane and go through an unpopular phase, but between the conquest ambitions of the ultra wealthy; the threat of nuclear escalation or a Trump Nero Decree; the threat of AI escaping confinement and turning on humanity; or the world running out of water, the decline and fall of a given religious tradition might not matter too much.
Prettyuch exactly, but European Christians are not that affected by these issues. They are mostly aOK with LGBT etc. And representation of Christianity here is zero hate.
Christianity is a faith that changes based on where you are to meat you halve way. Look at the Catholic Church being torn apart by this.
It’s a core part of the end-times fascism springing up all around us as an answer to the current world crises by trying to evade them altogether for some religious fantasy world.
Let’s just have a quick look at the definition of Christian nationalism, shall we? Because I guarantee you that all of these adherents of Christian nationalism not only consider themselves Christians, they consider themselves to be the BEST Christians:
Christian nationalism is an ideology that espouses a form of religious nationalism that focuses on promoting the Christian views of its followers in order to achieve prominence or dominance in political, cultural, and social life.
In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state.
Christian nationalism has been observed to overlap with antisemitism, racism and ethnonationalism.
And I can tell you they are none too friendly when it comes to LGBT and trans, either. Even the European ones.
That’s why I posted the definition. We’re not a community dedicated to religion, here in c/atheism, which is to say we may not be the same “make it up as you go along” types you seem more used to. There is an actual, formal meaning to the terms I linked, and you don’t get to exclude Christian nationalists from Christian nationalism.
When you have to rearrange formal, well-understood definitions of social constructs in order to come back at someone saying something you don’t like, it’s probably time for you to recognize you have no real argument, and are just trolling.
This is not representative of christians around the world. It isn’t even representative of christians in the US. You are highlighting evil/uninformed behavior and increasing its harm.
Nobody said any of that, you brought it to the table. The title and post specify conservative Christians, which in the US are absolute shitheads.
Fair point. I guess I am tired of the relentless bashing of the unusually stupid and absurd that this sub specializes in.
Why would an atheism community highlight Christians just chilling? Block it if you don’t like seeing nonbelievers kvetch about jackass religious people.
Just posting about Vance and weirdo Christians isn’t what atheism is about, I thought.
Atheism isn’t “about” anything. It’s the lack of belief in a god, gods, or spiritual beings. There is no doctrine or institution, that’s the point. The community making fun of dumb believers seems on-brand, imo, especially when they’re a huge part of the acceleration towards fascism around the world. Christian nationalists are a threat, and showing them as the hypocritical morons they are pushes back against their hatred.
It’s about being allowed to not believe in God, I’d say. Beware of the ultra nationalist American is much different from not believing or believing in the being no god.
It’s just the branding that annoys me. If this was called lunatic Ville it would be accurate and fine. What’s inside ain’t memes or atheists being atheists after all.
Ex-Christian here. Your points are mostly well taken; I just think you wildly misjudge how Christianity is seen from outside, and how these days its spokepersons are by default the worst-behaved among you because the “good” ones never get the mic, or don’t take it.
Atheists, including myself, come from the entire spectrum of religious experience, all the way from no religion whatsoever to that little church down in the backwoods of the South whose members eat, drink, and sleep religion, absolutely certain that they alone, and no one else, are going to be part of that 144,000 because not only did they not really read it, they don’t math.
There is no such denominator as “atheists being atheists” anywhere. I was deeply into it for thirty-five years and am even more deeply grateful every day I wake up that I am out of that mental jail. Someone else might have endured ongoing manipulation, cruelty, ostracization, or even outright abuse from religious groups. Someone else might be none of the above and just think we’re all a disparate group of loons that were either born wise (always atheist) or somehow came to our senses.
There is NO one size fits all. There is NO one kind of atheist. There is NO “atheists being atheists” sitting around talking about a hole in the universe where they see nothing and you see your god. THERE IS NO ATHEIST BRANDING.
This thread is quite mild compared to some I’ve seen. You seem to have the totality of atheism confused with what sounds like one person’s individual kneejerk reaction to their own bad case of Christianity. And you’ve dared to define for a group of atheists what atheism is. Selah.
There also is no Christian for Christianity is different depending on where you are. And hate preachers are a very American/Colonial thing.
You know what I don’t post about? My dad. Still Christian. He’s laid back. He wasn’t sure about things like LGBT+ but he’s generally an accepting guy, and as US culture has grown more accepting, so has he. He doesn’t give me shit about religion - feels it’s one of those things that everyone has to decide what to do for themselves.
So I don’t post about him, or talk about his religion much, because it’s fine.
I do talk about the Christians who try and shit on our human rights, though, because that has real consequences. And talking about it lets us vent and let off some steam, finding community in our shared experiences.
Like many places where people complain about bad things, you shouldn’t necessarily read them complaining about the shitty parts of a subject as them complaining about the entire subject.
For the Christians who are following the teachings of Jesus - what he actually purportedly said and taught - good on yer, we ain’t complaining about you (well, most of us probably aren’t).
I tend to believe that ALL religion is generally bad. But I look at Sikhs for example - those folks are not perfect, I’m sure, but you see story after story after story about them helping fellow humans - offering free food no questions asked - taking care of people. I aspire to be like that, religion or no.
For the Christians doing that? Awesome, you rock. Those are not the Christians we’re generally bitching about.
You might see… minorities bitching about racism or women bitching about toxic male culture. #notallwhites and #notallmen - just don’t take offense if you’re not one of the bad ones.
Right? It’s a god damn shame that I have sane and compassionate friends and family who get lumped in with these lunatics.
Assholes who exist just to be assholes will reach for any excuse they can hook their fangs into and suck the life out of it. Narcissists don’t care about what they have to defile if it means they get to keep getting a pass for it. And the people who’ve been abused by them keep seeking abusers and emulating them, because they’ve had any critical thought or independence wrung out of them until their souls are bone dry and flattened into fragile and paper-thin rehearsals of rage. And then they go out looking for fights because the constructed social paradigm falls apart if they’re ever anything BUT the fucking victims.
I hate cults. I hate the people who start them, run them, and perpetuate them. And I hate that they turn their victims into more conspirators to keep the scam running.
It’s not a religion?
I’ve never met a Christian who acted like Jesus. I have however been told at the age of 12 while in a crowded room full of Christians that I need to disown my lesbian parents or I would go to hell. And the people in the room backed this person up.
The people who forced my tribe to move from Georgia to Oklahoma on foot in winter also claimed to have been given that land from god.
Religion is a disease that brings out the worst in people.
As a block, they certainly vote like they think like this.
I will gove you around the world, but the last 10 years has shown that this is CLEARLY verybrepresentative of US Christians.
Not all, but the majority, who gleefuly, repeatedly, vote for people puahing acrively harmful policies.
And the rest do it quietly because they’re embarrassed because somewhere deep down they know they should be ashamed.
Found the self righteous Christian!
If you’re a true follower of christ, the correct response here would be “I agree, the temptation of sin and Satan is stronger than ever and I do all I can to remind my fellows in faith of the path Jesus has already laid out for us, which includes loving and caring for all of our neighbors as our own, and I remind those straying from the path that we can deceive ourselves, but not God, and I speak out so that their transgressions do not corrupt our message.”
Instead you get defensive and whine and develop a persecution complex while ignoring that us heathens follow your faiths basic teachings better than you and don’t need the threat of eternal damnation to do it. I’m agnostic and haven’t read the bible since grade school, and I can guarantee I’ll walk through the pearly gates before your entire congregation does if the Christians end up being right when I kick the bucket.
Sincerely hope the light of the lord can find you in this time of doubt in the faith and bring you away from your current life of sin 🙏
Not a true Scotsman, either.
This is definitely representative of the churches I’ve been dragged to. Nothing but hypocrisy and politics.
It is representative of most people who call themselves Christians, but not the ones who actually care about being decent. The latter group seems in the minority.
If the preponderance of American Christians were not like the person in the OP, I think we would live in a different, better, world.
Are you a Christian? I was a very serious Catholic until my early 20s. I found the doctrine to lack an intellectual rigor, though, and became disillusioned. I don’t want to argue with you about the existence of God, I’ve got that out of my system long ago. What do you think about the very public Christians of today, who encourage us to hate and to disregard our fellow man? It’s a sad state of affairs, isn’t it? Public Christianity and American Capitalism are intertwined at this point. Doesn’t it disgust you? It disgusts me. Even though I no longer believe in a God, I think many of the teaching of the church are good. Even though I no longer see myself as a part of it, I am still saddened when I see the Christian doctrine exploited by these pigs.
The current Pope is a step in the right direction, but I, an American, know self-described Catholics who hate him and say he’s wrong. Isn’t that something? I tell them that they are heretics but it doesn’t matter to them. Again, I’m an apostate, but I find their attitude extremely offensive!
How disappointing, huh?
In 2020-2021 I was following Kristin Kobes Du Mez during her book tour for Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation and this took me on a rabbit hole of Evangelical sociologists following the rise of white Christian nationalism in the US.
Curiously, white Christian nationalism is a sect that intersects with multiple denominations. Most of them are fundamentalist Christian, though some of them are conservative branches of mainlines like Methodists or Roman Catholics. The conservative majority of SCOTUS, for instance, are all Catholic, and white Christian nationalist. (They’re also members of the Federalist Society and were selected by Leonard Leo. It’s a tight club.)
But one of the predictions I remember hearing multiple times is that white Christian nationalism will deliver a fell blow to the Body of Christ (to all of Christendom), as Christians everywhere will be judged by the actions and behaviors of those within the white Christian nationalist movement.
This was before the Seven Mountain Mandate, but around when pressure from ministries convinced the state of Uganda to make aggravated homosexuality a capital crime. (According to Wikipedia, legislature was passed in 2023)
Similarly, we expect all Americans are going to be judged for the wrongdoings of MAGA and the Trump regime, including the atrocities currently being committed by ICE or the US armed forces. Just as all Germans were held at fault internationally for the wrongdoings of the Nazis and the German Reich. (Since we expect the US to default on its debt and the collapse of the economy, it’s going to suck, and not a single soul outside the US is going to want to help us as we starve.)
Already, alphas and zoomers are steering clear of Christianity for its association with Trump. Those who are being raised in Christian families and communities are, in record numbers, looking to escape and deconstruct. Christianity is now linked by association with family abuse, much with the help of the publicity of the white Christian nationalist movement, which commonly advises authoritarian household organization and parenting.
So, sure. #NotAllChristians. On the other hand, liberal ministries are now tiny, with many of their flock from the twentieth century turning into nones or outright atheists. And mainline Christian ministries still show an awful lot of hate towards women and LGBT+.
This isn’t fully reflected in their congregations, who are a lot more divided on these issues, but it really doesn’t help that the ministers and elders are on the side of bigotry. That positions them closer to the white Christian nationalists than it does the rest of liberal society.
Personally. I follow some Christians who believe in liberal civilization and universal civil rights. I know who the Universalists are. Yet the preachers and influencers of the Christian nationalist movement are having their voice amplified by the far-right propaganda machine. They’re getting sponsorship from the oligarchs who want to dismantle democracy and literally take over the world. And this is going to inform what the general public thinks about Christians, and Christianity as a whole.
I’d say Christianity is going to wane and go through an unpopular phase, but between the conquest ambitions of the ultra wealthy; the threat of nuclear escalation or a Trump Nero Decree; the threat of AI escaping confinement and turning on humanity; or the world running out of water, the decline and fall of a given religious tradition might not matter too much.
Prettyuch exactly, but European Christians are not that affected by these issues. They are mostly aOK with LGBT etc. And representation of Christianity here is zero hate.
Christianity is a faith that changes based on where you are to meat you halve way. Look at the Catholic Church being torn apart by this.
You’re fooling yourself by refusing to see what you’d rather not see.
Christian nationalism is flourishing in Europe as much as it is in the US and the UK right now: look at that long list of European countries on the Wikipedia sidebar.
It’s a core part of the end-times fascism springing up all around us as an answer to the current world crises by trying to evade them altogether for some religious fantasy world.
Let’s just have a quick look at the definition of Christian nationalism, shall we? Because I guarantee you that all of these adherents of Christian nationalism not only consider themselves Christians, they consider themselves to be the BEST Christians:
And I can tell you they are none too friendly when it comes to LGBT and trans, either. Even the European ones.
Christianity is not Christian Nationalism. Socialism ain’t National Socialism either.
That’s why I posted the definition. We’re not a community dedicated to religion, here in c/atheism, which is to say we may not be the same “make it up as you go along” types you seem more used to. There is an actual, formal meaning to the terms I linked, and you don’t get to exclude Christian nationalists from Christian nationalism.
When you have to rearrange formal, well-understood definitions of social constructs in order to come back at someone saying something you don’t like, it’s probably time for you to recognize you have no real argument, and are just trolling.