- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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This article seems to gloss over the fact that wages really haven’t risen with inflation. There may be more job openings than unemployed people, but do those jobs pay a livable wage?
If consumers are being forced into relative poverty because expenses are rising faster than incomes are, that is the definition of a bad economy. Whoever wrote this headline is bought and paid for.
Exactly. Just having job in no way guarantees someone also has a home and food to eat … which is some serious Black Mirror shit.
If you work 40 hours you shouldn’t need a 2nd job to survive. With the wealth America has you shouldn’t have to work more than 30
This is part of the issue. My local grocery store pays $15/hour and mostly hires part time to avoid benefits.
1 bedroom apartments start at $1,200/mo. Most places require rent to be no more than about 33% of income. Don’t even get me started on gas/car, insurance, utilities, etc.
There is a huge disconnect.
The economy is NOT in good shape. It is according to metrics they choose to measure, but jobs that pay a living wage are very hard to come by.
To be fair, it hasn’t been good by THAT standard in decades probably. It just feels worse right now because there was a rise in wages for a bit there that was totally lost to inflation.
When will we start talking about thriving wages?
when out of control greed is controlled… probably never?
When people stop conflating needs with wants.
Why is the greed of the owner class often conveniently dropped or forgotten in such discussions then? You think billionaires need their billions?
No.
The vast majority of first-worlders complaining about not having enough money already have more than people whose needs are not being met.
The problem is that they think they should get more before others who have less. It’s an issue that exists all the way to the top, which is why it’s hypocritical to call out billionaires while not looking at our own contributions to the problem.
In the end, the entire world is in poverty while 2000 people are rich beyond their wildest dreams.
Its awfully dismissive to pull the “starving kids in China” card
Uhh, no. My entire point was people conflating needs with wants and you’re doing just that.
“Living in poverty compared to billionaires” is not the same as starving.
Food security is more than just starvation fam
I think wages have kept up with inflation, if I’m reading this chart correctly: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
It’s normalized by CPI, so a flat line would be no wage growth.
Depends on the the sector, obviously. I’m guessing service sector wages have not kept up with inflation, since it seems like every place is understaffed (they’re not offering enough to attract workers). I also don’t think it accounts for part-time and gig worker wages.
Wage growth outpaced inflation in 2023.
How about the previous 10 yr stats?
Not great, but better than the 10+ years before that. Wage growth has mostly been stagnant since the 1970’s but there’s occasional periods where it’s done better. Like now, and I think about 10 years ago when a long period of crappy wage growth was broken following the GFC. It’s one of the few genuinely good things about the economy recently, people are finally earning more and if that keeps up for a few more years a whole lot of people are going to see their lives improved.
Lol your whole argument that it’s better now is based on your own argument it has been stagant for a decade and your pinnacle argument that fixes the mess is… 1 year of lukewarm wage growth? How the fuck does that fix anything?
Lol “few more years” … you have nice jokes.
I think you are misunderstanding me or projecting things onto me that aren’t there. I’m pointing at one of the few good things in the economy and saying if it continues then we will begin to see real change for the better. Also, it’s not been lukewarm wage growth, it’s been relatively strong and especially so for lower income workers. Labor is finally winning some and it’s bizarre that people are getting mad at me for pointing it out. It’s not a joke, it’s more money in people’s pockets finally and I hope it continues.
You know what it looks like to me? It looks like you made a claim before double checking the evidence, and when you got called out, instead of just admitting you were wrong you double and then triple down with some of the dumbest attempts at arguments I’ve ever seen.
They aren’t wrong though, wage growth has been historically strong the last two years.
Then you are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions that have misled you. Up until the 1970s wage generally grew with worker productivity and then everything changed and it’s been much more stagnant with most of the productivity gains turning into shareholder profits instead of rising wages. About 10 or so years ago we started more frequently having periods where wage growth outpaced inflation after a long period of very flat wages. More recently the whole covid and post-covid situation has transformed the labor market and led to wage growth. In 2023 we saw strong wage growth, particularly for lower income workers. If the current trend continues with falling inflation and rising wages then the coming years will lead to meaningful improvements in the lives of workers. What is dumb about this argument? More money in the hands of workers, especially lower income workers, is a good thing.
just go fuck yourself with a cactus. single year gains are meaningless when YOY gains are in the toilet.
The title itself is an act of gaslighting.
I’m gonna take a position for this comment that is a harder line than I usually would take on economic issues: if the consumer is not able to consume at the same rate because prices are going up faster than wages are, then the flow of money is not “good” as conventionally idealized in “the economy.”
Thanks for the heads up Buffalox. Edited to finish the thought. Cell tower fuckery made it look like I had lost the comment.
I think it should be clear that what he means is like the famous quote: “Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?”
InflationCapitalism has created a dark cloud over how everyday Americans view the economyA shitty economy that has forced people into paying more for less while corporations lie about the reason for inflation and rightfully soured everyday Americans view of the economy.
The value of the stock market and homes increasing does fuck all for people getting screwed at the grocery store.
I’m fortunate enough to get to benefit from both of those things, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend the economy is great now because theoretical net worth has gone up.
Inflation, shrinkflation, record corporate profits, rising home prices, the billionaire class getting orders of magnitude richer, and my paycheck going up a mere three percent a year… thats sort of why I feel like the economy sucks a bag of dicks.
I’m still doing well. I have a house. I have a car. I have a job… but in comparison I’m not moving forward. So that is why I feel like the economy sucks.
“the economy” is not your economy or mine. If we made all our money from investments, we’d be doing ok. The growth in our wealth would be outpacing inflation.
Our wealth is tied to wages. As long as we impact someone else’s bottom line, we won’t be getting ahead, ore even keeping pace, with inflation.
You’re missing a piece here: corporate greed
That is why someone that could theoretically live on illiquid investments would be in a better position, especially since the market has been doing quite well all things considered. However in actual reality we need to buy shit from these corporate oligarchs and they are fleecing us because they can, not because of actual economic pressure.
You’re so close with your final sentence, but you miss the forest for the trees when you say getting ahead or keeping pace with inflation. Inflation is a charged word that encompasses more than just the problem here. Right now the majority of the problem which has actual impact to actual people begins and ends with out of control corporate greed and unrestrained capitalism.
You’re right. I definitely didn’t spell it out. I think I forgot to mention it because in my mind, it goes without saying. Thanks for the heads up. Not everyone lives in my mind, right? Lol.
It’s not about the economy when corporate raises prices because they can instead of because of actual economic pressure.
My wife and I both got huge raises in the past 2 years, my investments have done well as I switched a bunch to some more aggressive funds when I became confident a soft landing was likely, the value of my house has sky rocketed nearly 50% over the past few years, and we’ve saved enough to be able to do a significant upgrade to our modest house.
Should I think the economy is great or should I recognize that my personal experience is not “the economy”?
I think the point is, most people don’t view the economy through the same economic lens as an economist, or the Fed. People view the economy through their lens of how far their money goes.
Sure, McDonalds, Zuck, Musk, Starbucks, Boeing are all doing well… but I just paid 8 bucks for two cups of small drip coffee at my local shop, and 40 bucks to feed my family of four at McDonalds.
The economy has created a dark cloud over how Americans view the economy.
FTFY. Quit with the gaslighting.
The economy is doing great, it’s the distribution of it that’s the problem. But for some Reason Americans can’t seem to create a majority to do something about that. They’d rather keep the 1% happy for some reason.
Healthy distribution of wealth is an inextricable quality of a good economy. In other words, an economy can not be doing good if wealth isn’t distributed properly. Your comment only works if “the economy” = GDP, which the sentiment of hundreds of millions of Americans should tell you, isn’t the case.
Nope, if what you say were true, you couldn’t have a good economy with for instance slavery. Which I agree that morally you can’t, but economy is not moral, unless we make it so.
The economy doing well is pretty objective, whether it’s distributed properly is not.
It’s very obvious in for instance USA, that some people are perfectly fine with people starving and not having health care, they find that proper and all is well, because they believe if people were given food shelter and healthcare, it would be at the cost of their own wealth.
Less selfish people may believe something along the lines of the maximization of the welfare of everybody.You’re literally just repeating yourself.
if what you say were true, you couldn’t have a good economy with for instance slavery.
Begging the question. What I say is true, and no, you can not have a good economy with slavery. High GDP? For sure. But good economy? No. Why? Because there isn’t a healthy distribution of wealth.
The economy doing well is pretty objective, whether it’s distributed properly is not.
Wealth distribution isn’t some abstract concept. Plenty of frameworks have been developed to create (or at least attempt to create) a healthy distribution of wealth. The Kuznets curve and Pareto distribution have helped with economic planning across many European countries that don’t seem to have nearly the severity of income inequality or living unaffordability as the US.
I don’t even see how your last bit is relevant to my comment. Where does welfare fall into my main point that the economy is only doing great if you equate “the economy” to GDP?
Economy is measured on money, not quality of life or social justice. For that there are other measurements, like HDI.
There are zero classic economic models that agree with your claim, you are free to have your opinion, but opinions aren’t facts. And the fact is that unfortunately, you CAN have a good economy disregarding the morals of it are bad.
You may call whatever you want good or bad based on your own judgement, but saying a good economy needs to be moral, doesn’t even make any sense, because morality isn’t objective.
Your claim is simply factually wrong, no matter how much we may wish it were true.
Nope, if what you say were true, you couldn’t have a good economy with for instance slavery.
what kind of nightmare am I reading? You want fucking slavery?
No, it’s an example of economy having absolutely no morals, unless we apply it specifically, by making illegal things that are economically beneficial but immoral.
I think its just your idea of what a good economy should be having no morals.
“Economic models don’t account for distribution. The Economy is fine. Eat your dirt.”
I’m loving that more people are figuring this out.
it might feel hopeless now but for everyone that learns this we get closer to a tipping point.
“That discontent comes even as a strong labor market, appreciating home values and a stock market rebound has made some positive about their financial situation.”
A strong labor market doesn’t help you unless you’re looking for a job.
Appreciating home values = increased rent for renters. Meanwhile, existing home owners can’t sell because of high interest rates on loans.
Stock market rebound doesn’t help people not in the stock market.
Everyone I know who’s sold their house has done it within a week or two of putting it on the market and they got more than they were asking for. Other than that I agree with you.
That’s all fine and dandy if you downsize or go to a different area with a lower COL, but if you buy in the same market, you also pay more for the new house.
And that extra money covers the original down payment, interest that was paid on the mortgage, closing costs, realtor fees, costs to repair, stage, and prep the house for sale, and down payment on the next mortgage. It’s a never-ending cycle of spending for more debt. AKA the American Dream.
Property value has zero direct and real world connection to the cost of rent, rent is mostly about value and what the market can stand. Plenty of buildings, houses, etc have been owned long enough by whatever company/person/group that the operating expenses are way lower than you may expect. Where I am landlords are raising rent just because, unless they took out insane loans with hard money lenders, their operating costs have most definitely not increased at the same rate they are increasing rent.
As for selling. Again. You have no idea what you are talking about. Sellers don’t have to deal with interest rates unless they are looking to use a mortgage to pay for a new place to live. If you are downsizing and/or moving to a lower cost of living area, you should be able to own outright without a loan. We are planning similar. We will not be surprised if sometime in the next few years we are offered 500k+ for our property and if/when that happens we will move further out of civilization and be setup for an easy and comfortable retirement.
A strong labor market helps everyone even those of us who already have a job. You need to educate yourself on how economies work. A rising tide lifts all boats.
You need to delete this comment and go seek help, take a hit from a joint/vape/etc or just take a nap.q
This comment is so tone deaf and out of touch with reality that it’s almost funny. Almost.
You literally just said landlords will use any reason they can to raise rent, it doesn’t need to make sense, guy.
Says the person who clearly huffed paint first thing this morning. I didn’t say anything about it making sense but it’s clear who here understands this stuff and who doesn’t.
As for the accusation of being tone deaf and out of touch. You have no idea what my situation is. For the record, we bought a small house and 3+ acres of land just before the pandemic, listing price was just shy of 100k in an country’ish outskirt of a midsized major city. There is enough development going on around us that we are fully expecting a developer to offer to buy our property at some point in the future, in which case we will downsize, sort of and either buy further out of civilization or invest the proceeds and move into an apt somewhere closer to places we want to be.
“rent is mostly about value and what the market can stand”
Exactly what I said. Value goes up, rent goes up. Unless you live in a market where rent increases are capped somehow.
If “the economy” doesn’t translate to the purchasing power of our labor, then it’s a useless metric.
… useful to them. LOL
Reminds me of the quote “If you’re not making money in your sleep, you will work until you die.”
This, I believe, is by design.
You spelled lie wrong
is ‘the economy’ just cover for ‘people who own stocks’? are they really ignoring the plight of the common man because some rich peoples stocks are a-ok?
no that can of water did not double in cost to market, but youre going to pay for it like it did.
feels like inflation has pointed out to the common man what a farce ‘the economy’ is.
It’s because the USA’s corporate owners like to obfuscate shit like that. The economy is doing well if all you’re looking at is GDP, stock market, and how profitable companies are.
However, a quick look at the Consumer Price Index shows how fucked the economy is for the citizens - but you never hear about the US’s really bad CPI score and how inefficient most markets are in the US.
What specifically about the CPI are you referring to?
You know, the…landing page that defines the CPI. I guess.
They do it because it works.
Corporate disaster profiteering
Overuse of the money printers.
I think the analysis I’ve seen showed supply-chain disruptions was the cause for most of the inflation (first covid, then Russia-Ukraine war). Then, a significant portion was from increased corporate profits (if you’re being generous, you could say companies increased their margins due to future uncertainty). There’s also a new trend of deniable price collusion (algorithmic collusion, such as what Amazon has been doing). M2 money supply has been decreasing for the last 1-1/2 years.
Inflation is a lagging indicator of an excess in currency. It takes time for all the extra cash to filter through and actually cause prices to go up. Saying it’s “greed” is idiotic, because it implies companies weren’t greedy before…
You’re so goddamn stupid. You are literally cherry picking here.
Yes inflation rates lags behind because they need to have that data to calculate it in the first place. Furthermore Trump printing the most money ever in the history of the nation on top of corporate greed has really done a number on this country.
You say there was greed before so that can’t be it now is the dumbest goddamn thing I’ve read today. How do you think these corporate monopolies are hitting record breaking profits quarter after quarter? Do you not realize that to continue to do that you must make more and more?
But noooo, the price gouging and size decreases in the face of low/reduced economic pressure is totally not indicative of the actual primary cause here.
Then let’s think back a few years (I know that must be difficult for a moron like yourself)
What happened then? Oh right, the pandemic.
“Since wealth is a major source of future economic gains, and increasingly, of power and influence, this presages further increases in inequality,” they wrote of what they called an “extreme concentration of economic power in the hands of a very small minority of the super-rich”. (For a graphic on share of wealth owned by richest 10%, middle 40% and poorest 50%, see https://tmsnrt.rs/3y0tzHi)
Forbes’ annual world’s billionaires list this year included a record-breaking 2,755 billionaires with a combined worth of $13.1 trillion, up from $8 trillion last year. read more
The new report showed that a wider group of 520,000 adults who make up the top 0.01% richest together saw their share of global wealth hit 11% this year, up from 10% the year before. Belonging to the top 0.01% category meant having household wealth of at least 16.7 million euros ($19 million), adjusted for purchasing power parity across currencies, it said.
Analysts say some super-rich have benefited from the shift online of much of the world’s economy during lockdowns, while others simply gained from rising asset prices as financial markets bet on the speed and shape of the global recovery.
Can you guess what the result would be if a very small minority that owned monopolistic capitalist empires gobbled up so much wealth and resources that they could collude on pricing without any need for it to bend with actual economic status? Do you think they will keep prices low when they are competing only with themselves?
B-but the greed was always there!!! That can’t be the cause of many of our current problems!!!
Fucking goddamn idiot.
No that would be Donald’s thing. He printed the most money ever in the history of the goddamn country during his term of terror.
It’s a huge testament to Biden’s admin for the relatively soft landing we have had, one of the best in the G7. The thing is, we have another big problem: out of control corporate greed and late stage capitalism.
That problem is far bigger than anything Biden can do with a chaotic refuse-to-do-anything Congress who is paralyzed by minority extremists and Trump worshippers.
Money printers do not walk into your local supermarket and slap a big sticker with a big number for the price of bread.
The bread company, which sells your brand of bread made that decision. And they alone have that authority to dictate the price of their product.
More like shrinkflation/greedflation.
It isn’t about the economy so much as it’s about
the goddamn out of control corporate greed by our oligarchs and their monopolies
as a philistine sometimes it is what is. People need to tighten up and be greatful for what they have! Eat less and take that extra shift from steve next week
Next year i put in a whest crop and just make my own cereal /ss
Yet they just set a new record for holiday spending?
Can it be any more obvious that the media is dooming for a Trump win?
I just stopped buying stuff unless I absolutely need it.
I really need to learn this discipline
It’s great in our digital age where most things are accessible for free.
If you have expensive hobbies, then there’s not really a way around that.
Other than finding a new hobby of course.
I did that for health reasons a while back. New hobby wasn’t my favorite thing to do but I traded a sedentary hobby for one that is physically active. Several months later the new hobby became my preferred activity.
Hack your brain into liking a cheaper hobby if needed.
“Inflation”
