• Nobody@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    They got a pass for taking pot shots at Israel, because that’s an internal regional conflict. Shooting at civilian trade ships in one of the most important shipping lanes on the planet is a completely different thing. We’re not watching gas prices skyrocket, a resurgent Russia, a global economic downturn, etc. just because some religious fanatics are throwing a temper tantrum.

    The Houthis were warned repeatedly to cut that shit out, and they didn’t listen. These are the consequences.

    • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
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      10 months ago

      All civilian trade ships are fired upon when they attempt to violate a blockade. Europe does it, Israel does it, the US does it. It’s how blockades work.

      Will it effect international trade? Yes. So maybe the USA should have considered that before ruining relationships by attempting to maintain white dominance on the region. Oh right. They did consider it. And then realized they could just bomb everyone to get their way. And now, the West is experiencing the consequences of their violence - shipping delays.

      • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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        10 months ago

        Except the Houthis aren’t just attacking ships docking in Israel. They have been attacking any ship to the point that shipping companies have stopped using the canal.

        And a blockade is an act of war. People subject to blockades have the international right to fight back.

        • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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          10 months ago

          There was news coming out today from Bloomberg that some oil tankers stopped using the Suez only following the US-UK airstrikes on Yemen.

          Look at an AIS map like vesselfinder. The Sentosa 66 (Suez -> Pakistan) and the Scarlet Robin (Suez -> China) will both be passing the Bab-el-Mandeb heading towards Asia. The Buffalo (Singapore -> Suez) and the Fighter Two (India -> Suez) both passed the Bab-el-Mandeb heading towards the Suez.

          • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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            10 months ago

            Except that the issue wasn’t with oil tankers, but with container ships. Before the US-UK attacks, most container shipping companies stopped using the Suez Canal.

            It isn’t just oil that goes through that canal.

            • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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              10 months ago

              The Flying Fish 1 container ship from Malaysia to unknown (but just passed Bab-el-Mandeb). The COSCO Shengshi vehicle carrier from the Suez to Malaysia. The Zhong Gu Nan Hai container ship from the Suez to India.

              Again, I’d recommend you look at a free AIS map if you’d like to learn more. There was another recent story that come out showing that some ships are declaring “CHINESE VESSEL AND CREW” on AIS to stay safe. In contrast, this is what turning off AIS means:

              Deliberately turning off the AIS transmitter signal without legitimate reason represents a breach of SOLAS and puts the ship in breach of flag state regulations. It may also cause suspicion about why the ship’s movements are being concealed. One may assume deceptive shipping practices such as the involvement in illegal fishing activities (as far as fishing vessels are concerned) or trade in contravention to international sanctions. Trading the ship in breach of sanctions, concealing the ships location by “going dark” may also be a reason to deny insurance cover.

              • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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                10 months ago

                I haven’t that all ships have stopped using it, but a significant about have far beyond the affect of trading with Israel.

                https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/container-rates-soar-concerns-prolonged-red-sea-disruption-2024-01-12/

                Many shipping companies have shifted operations and the cost of shipping from China to Europe has increased in China. The presence of ships without an analysis of shipping over time from before the attacks doesn’t mean shipping lanes are open to everyone but Israel.

                • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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                  10 months ago

                  Except the Houthis aren’t just attacking ships docking in Israel. They have been attacking any ship to the point that shipping companies have stopped using the canal.

                  That was the claim you made. It’s absolutely true that shipping companies with ties to Israel have ceased to transit the Bab-el-Mandeb, but, for example, COSCO recently sent a ship through and was not attacked because they have ceased all shipments to Israel.

                  Edit: A number of ships were turning off AIS before transiting the Bab-el-Mandeb early in the conflict. See my comment above to learn more about why that’s usually not the best idea.

        • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          People subject to blockades have the international right to fight back

          let me guess… unless they’re Palestinians, right?

    • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      Ansar Allah have said explicitly that they are attempting to enforce a Naval blockade in the Red Sea against Israel. They have also stated that they believe under international law they are obligated to do whatever they can to prevent genocide.

      I don’t see any reason why they can’t be negotiated with. Calling them “religious fanatics” that are “throwing a temper tantrum” is just a silly way to dismiss non violent solutions to the conflict.

      Biden’s decision to threaten and subsequently bomb them is just plain arrogant belligerence. The US backed campaign to bomb and starve out the Houthis didn’t work previously so why does Biden think it’ll work now?

      • Nobody@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Firstly, the Houthi flag includes the words, “Death to America.” These are not rational actors. They are fanatic jihadis and all attempts to reason with them have failed. Acting like the Houthis are the same as a regular nation state is borderline intellectually dishonest.

        If they have a problem with Israel, keep firing at Israel. If they want a problem with the rest of the world, keep firing at our CIVILIAN ships. Firing at those ships is an act of war, and it was going to provoke a response.

        Biden waited a very long time to act, which emboldened Iran to take an oil tanker. That move virtually guaranteed a response, and it’s good that the response was limited to Yemen. Biden is playing the cards he’s been dealt, and he’s playing them reasonably.

        Also, it should be mentioned that the Houthis themselves said the casualties were ~5 dead and 6 wounded. Warming was given far in advance so they could evacuate and minimize casualties. If Biden had wanted to play dirtier, he could have. A deliberate decision was made to minimize civilian casualties. If the positions were reversed, the Houthis would nuke Tel Aviv, DC, and every other major city in both the US and Israel.

          • Cypher@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Surely that would only make sense if America had a history of funding coups, arming terrorists, overthrowing governments and indiscriminately bombing the region right?

            Fortunately that’s not the case so the Houthis are clearly just insane. That is a much easier explanation.

        • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          You do realize that the US supported a campaign of bombing and a blockade against Yemen for the better part of the past decade? It’s not irrational of them to hate the US. They certainly aren’t more or less religious fanatics than Israel or the Christian Zionists in the US that support Israel.

          • Nobody@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            They certainly aren’t more or less religious fanatics than Israel or the Christian Zionists in the US that support Israel.

            The world would be a great place if everyone behaved rationally. It’s sad that they don’t.

          • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Why is it that every time that you’re confronted with information that proves you wrong you always just pivot back to

            “Well what does it matter anyway, America is worse”?

            • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              I explained why the Houthis have reason to hate the US after their hate was cited as a reason why they must be irrational. That’s not a pivot. It’s a very direct response. You should work on your reading comprehension.

        • citizen@normalcity.life
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          10 months ago

          20 years of bombing as the title of this thread implies is probably the cause they are angry with america. Ironically by taking position against israel genocide they are doing more than the west at preventing fanaticism as it has been said over and over that the indiscriminate bombing of gaza can only breed more terrorists. Whoever leads them is probably a scummy individual but just as much as Biden or the other 3 presidents that bombed them.

        • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          Marg bar amrika

          You’re more mad about the treats getting delayed than the genocide our government is enabling.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Their country has been fucked up by said parties. It has nothing to do with religion.

          You’re comparing someone who fights back against a bully and then says he would be even worse than the bully if he were in that position.

      • Drusas@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        The Houthis are the ones attacking civilians and American warships alike. The international community tried to get them to stop for months before resorting to retaliation.

        • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          What do you think enforcing a naval blockade looks like?

          Also as far as I can tell, the only attempts at negotiation were just open threats telling them to stop or else.

          • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            A blockade is an act of War. As is firing upon military and civilian ships. Whine about almost certain consequences all you like, they’ve no one to blame but themselves.

            • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              Yes a blockade is an act of war. Ansar Allah declared war on Israel. What’s your point? The US is still solely responsible when it decides to bomb a country instead of negotiating.

              • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                And they got War in return as they were repeatedly warned would happen. What’s your point? And the US has bombed crap tons of people into the stone age for being threats to its monied interests. Why would anyone be stupid enough to think a different outcome would occur? Why would anyone be stupid enough to think after all the people the US has had killed, killing these really really self important fools would be a bridge to far?

                • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  Do you really think Ansar Allah thought the US wouldn’t retaliate militarily? Of course they did. The US has been complicit in committing war crimes against Yemen for the better part of the last decade. Frankly that’s probably a significant reason why they felt the need to do whatever they could to stop the US backed genocide in Gaza. Maybe just maybe bombing them isn’t the answer here.

                  • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
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                    10 months ago

                    The consequences of an idiot leader’s decisions are not only predictable, they are announced prior.

                • Count042@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  The US never negotiated, and they probably wouldn’t listen considering we tried to genocide them by blockade since 2015 until Saudi Arabia decided they wanted to keep their oil refineries.

                  The only silly person here is the one that expects a people we tried, and failed, to genocide would be afraid of the people that did it.

        • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          So how does bombing them change any of that? Their immediate demands are that Israel ends their genocidal campaign against Palestinians in Gaza. If Israel complies and the Houthis continue their attacks the world is still better off so why not try that before resorting to violence?

    • citizen@normalcity.life
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      10 months ago

      Houthis attacking ships is probably the consequence of the west fucking up with them to steal their territories and money.