Due to the recent ban of a wolfballs.com-user for “Bigotry and racism on his main account on Wolfball.” it is requested that Lemmy.ml updates the Code of Conduct to reflect actual moderation. Please consider adding that Lemmy.ml will ban users for comments made with other accounts on other instances.

  • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
    195·
    2 years ago

    I don’t need to argue anything. Fuck fascists. If you’re an ML like you’ve stated in the past, you know why and don’t need me to explain to you why fascism is unacceptable and how they leverage liberal discourse to gain footing.

    If you enable fascists to speak then what do you even stand for?

    To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism.

    To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

    I don’t claim to be unbiased. I don’t claim to be fair. Because being unbiased and fair is for people who don’t have to worry about their own survival. LGBT people have already learned this lesson when we’ve been hunted down in the past. You gotta nip this shit in the bud before it takes root.

    If you make this place a safe haven for these people, then it’s not safe for me or people like me, and I will treat it like radioactive waste.

    • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
      1014·
      2 years ago

      You are proposing to change lemmy.ml rules so that users can be banned for activity on other sites. Your only argument for this rule change seems to be the claim that wolfballs.com is fascist. You havent shown any evidence to support this claim, and its far from obvious when browsing the site. So I dont see any justification for such a rule change.

      • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
        172·
        2 years ago

        You keep ignoring that he is on here every time someone is about to get banned for bigotry offering a safe space on wolfballs. You let the comment section of your Leftist website be a recruiting grounds for racists and homophobes. And you keep saying “can’t police his activity on another site,” but like…how is posting links and promoting a bigoted website not a violation of lemmy.ml’s rules?

        • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
          816·
          2 years ago

          So now you say that Masterofballs should be banned because of things that other people say on his instance, and because of posting memes?

          • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
            142·
            2 years ago

            How can you possibly look at that site and argue that you don’t “see fascism.” And if you’d like, I can show you all the horrible shit masterofballs personally posts.

            You don’t think wolfballs is fascist. You don’t just ban bigots outright, you in fact recommend to them a website where they can get their views affirmed and radicalize farther.

            Earlier on you said “leftist” is too vague but you don’t know how else to describe lemmy, but this behaviour makes it abundantly clear that you should describe it as liberal.

            • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
              818·
              2 years ago

              Maybe we have a different view what fascism means. For me fascism is calling for physical violence, like murder or genocide. Not posting memes on the internet.

              • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
                183·
                2 years ago

                dehumanizing memes that help radicalize people into being more comfortable with eliminating a group of people is literally the entire point of fascist propaganda are you serious?

                edit: “I see fascism as actually killing the Jews, that’s entirely unrelated to all of these Jewish caricatures that my buddies have been passing around the Weimar Republic.”

                • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
                  816·
                  2 years ago

                  Im really losing track what you are arguing here. If you want to change the site rules of lemmy.ml, you should specifically suggest what the new rule(s) should be, and explain how that would improve the instance. Otherwise there is no point in continuing this discussion.

                  But to be honest, you are not even registered on this instance, so I dont think you should have any right to influence the rules here.

                  • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
                    172·
                    2 years ago

                    “Communities mirror the societies in which they exist and positive action is essential to counteract the many forms of inequality and abuses of power that exist in society.”

                    "4. Unacceptable Behavior The following behaviors are considered harassment and are unacceptable within our community:

                    Violence, threats of violence or violent language directed against another person. Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist or otherwise discriminatory jokes and language. Posting or displaying sexually explicit or violent material. Posting or threatening to post other people’s personally identifying information (“doxing”). Personal insults, particularly those related to gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or disability."

                    "9. Scope We expect all community participants (contributors, paid or otherwise; sponsors; and other guests) to abide by this Code of Conduct in all community venues–online and in-person–as well as in all one-on-one communications pertaining to community business.

                    This code of conduct and its related procedures also applies to unacceptable behavior occurring outside the scope of community activities when such behavior has the potential to adversely affect the safety and well-being of community members."

                    https://github.com/stumpsyn/policies/blob/master/citizen_code_of_conduct.md

                    As per the Citizen Code of Conduct linked to in Lemmy.ml’s Code of Conduct, maintaining and promoting a bigoted website is a violation, and the scope of the code of conduct extends to unacceptable behaviour occurring outside the scope of community activities

                    I’m not trying to influence you to change any rules, I’m saying you are not enforcing the rules that currently are in place.

                  • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
                    194·
                    2 years ago

                    If you promote racist content you get banned, end of story. I literally pointed out a meme that’s racist against black people and latinos. I literally pointed to a thread where they’re disappointed reddit won’t let them call me and people like me a “groomer”. Do you not think the rhetoric will get worse if you let it spread?

                    Do you think I’m a groomer @nutomic@lemmy.ml ? Do you think that I want to sit at the same table as a guy who advertises that he thinks I’m a smoothbrain? I’ve done this song and dance before. If you let wolfballs stay you will invite ruin on this place and you will have no one to blame but yourself. This isn’t about fairness. It’s about survival.

                    I respected you as a dev, but this is where I draw the line, when you see some stupid ideal as more important than my humanity.

              • comfy@lemmy.ml
                62·
                2 years ago

                I don’t think fascism can be described as those behaviors, it’s an ideology.

                Those two behaviors you described aren’t in isolation. Can’t a meme be fascist propaganda? Can’t a meme attempt to dehumanize or justify violence without calling for it? Is fascism only dangerous when it reaches the point of open violence?

                I don’t agree with the line of reasoning that ‘wolfballs is fascist’, I think that’s ignorant of what fascism is and why non-fascism can also be horrible, but I don’t think the ‘it’s just memes’ argument is helpful.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
      716·
      2 years ago

      If you’re an ML like you’ve stated in the past, you know why and don’t need me to explain to you why fascism is unacceptable and how they leverage liberal discourse to gain footing.

      This is exactly why non-MLs look at half the commies and shake their heads. If all you scream is “fascist” and literally refuse to explain, then all we gather is “They call people they don’t like fascists”. Then commies get mad the rest of us “can’t see” the proper way.

      To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

      How does this not counter your first point? If you don’t practice what you believe in when it actually matters, you don’t have beliefs, you have hobbies.

      Edit: This thread has gone on for many comments. Read them for a laugh. Basically they never proved the original guy is racist, only got increasingly frustrated. Which is honestly surprising, since I believe the guy is probably a racist PoS, but all I asked for was proof of it.

      • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
        163·
        2 years ago

        I have literally linked to where the guy is being racist and seanchai has quoted his homophobic and transphobic remarks. It’s plain as day. I’m calling this shit out because it makes me feel unsafe to be here as a queer person.

        Also, how do you not know what a dogwhistle is?

        • comfy@lemmy.ml
          46·
          2 years ago

          It’s counterproductive to conflate racism, homophobia and transphobia with fascism.

          They’re all disgusting behaviors. Make no mistake, they’re all mindless, anti-social, and dangerous. However lumping them into the term fascism trivializes what makes fascism in particular dangerous or appealing to its audience, it falsely suggests that fascism without those traits, a national fascism rather than a racial fascism (which is indeed what some fascists propose) isn’t reprehensible, and makes people who have seen a defintion of fascism think it’s just an ignorant slur just like calling any queer person a liberal, which will make people just not listen.

          You don’t have to be one to be the other. They’re all horrible. Don’t pretend their problem is being a fascist; their problem is being a racist anti-queer idiot.

          • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
            101·
            2 years ago

            If it looks like a duck, eats like a duck, quacks like a duck, builds an ideological pipeline like a duck…

        • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
          514·
          2 years ago

          Congrats on proving both my comments for the second post in a row. Also grats on being queer? Anyways, if you’re so confident you’re right, feel free to actually reply with links of the guy being racist (instead of just saying you did), because the only post I see you doing that has 3 links to… Content not posted by the guy and non-racist content.

            • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
              311·
              2 years ago

              Congrats, you linked another 10 posts, none of which prove the banned guy was racist. Over half the posts you linked weren’t even from the banned guy. Stop wasting my time, you’re making me think very poorly of commies.

              Also, for future reference, one strong point is a lot better than dumping links (or in this case, dumping a link to links to images that weren’t even relevant to the point at hand, which is you are yet to provide any proof Masterofballs is posting racist content).

              • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
                111·
                2 years ago

                Defends racists? Check.

                Thinks poorly of commies? Check.

                Doesn’t bother to investigate a situation before commenting on it? Check.

                I dunno guys, I think maybe this person isn’t actually interested in what we have to say. Who could guess.

                • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
                  27·
                  2 years ago

                  Defends racists? Check.

                  Doesn’t provide proof? Another check to my first point. You guys are feeding my ego here

                  Thinks poorly of commies? Check.

                  Misinterprets my comment? Another check to my first point. You guys are feeding my ego here

                  Doesn’t bother to investigate a situation before commenting on it? Check.

                  Skipped reading my comments? Another check to my first point. You guys are feeding my ego here

                • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
                  14·
                  2 years ago

                  Nice, will I learn to call everything racist and fail to back it up 5 times in a row there? Despite being reminded in each reply that you’re trying to prove something is racist?