The French government issued a decree Tuesday banning the term “steak” on the label of vegetarian products, saying it was reserved for meat alone.
The French government issued a decree Tuesday banning the term “steak” on the label of vegetarian products, saying it was reserved for meat alone.
I would like to buy something called bacon because I like bacon? You can like meat and still be vegan. Most vegans are vegan because of animal cruelty and climate impact, not because they hate meat. I can only speak for my country, but here such products are all on the same shelf and are clearly labeled as vegetarian/vegan. It makes sense to call it vegan bacon or vegan steak because it clearly imitates the meat product and I don’t want to have to decipher what it’s supposed to be first.
Then buy bacon. Or go online and try to find some info about what could resemble bacon in your country/area. Don’t see why all fucking people that have been buying bacon expecting to buy bacon now need to sift through other stuff to find, you know, bacon.
Doesn’t really matter the reason why vegans are vegans. You made a choice, deal with it and I am not saying this in a snarky way, we shouldn’t change the meaning orlf word and mislabel food because of your choice and your personal tastes that still lean towards bacon - I can’t blame you for that BTW
I don’t know where you shop, but Vegan shit has its own section here in Canada. For the frozen stuff, it’s in the hippie aisle with the chia seeds and the quinoa.
In my country the tofu and meat imitation products are in their own section, but the vegan vegetables, the vegan potatoes, the vegan bread, the vegan pasta, the vegan sauces, the vegan fruits, the vegan chips, the vegan biscuits, the vegan coffee, and the vegan TV dinners are in the normal places for those things.
Why are you so set on making it harder for shoppers to know what they’re buying?
I don’t understand why you seem to be so angry about it. I won’t buy “real” bacon because it’s terrible for both climate and pigs.
Nobody is mislabeling food. Vegan bacon is the perfect term for a vegan bacon substitute and nobody ever bought something labeled “vegan bacon” and was then disappointed that it didn’t contain meat. It’s not like manufacturers try to deceive people. The stuff is clearly labeled as vegan and it’s usually even sold from a different shelf.
I am not that sure that from a climate point of view, my steak that come from the farm down the road (who was raised in the grass the other side of the road) is worse than the avocado coming from Florida.
If you go to the industrial production, in the end there are no difference in the outcome, only in the way you arrive there.
Fine, but because we cannot agree to call things with its proper name ?
True, so I suppose that I can come up with some kind of “beyond cabbage” made from animal products and call it cabbage, right ? After all people just need to do is read the label…
I’m just going to drop this here.
Transportation is such a small factor in food production is pretty much negligible. Meat always loses vs plants regarding climate impact.
Yes, that’s all I’m saying. Bacon is Bacon, vegan bacon is vegan bacon.
If your meat cabbage abomination is labeled correctly and not sold in the vegetable section of the supermarket, sure, go for it. I doubt it would be a successful product, but go for it.
Probably, I am not able to read what the picture say (for some reason is too small)
Except the word bacon means “meat from the back or sides of a pig, often eaten fried in thin slices” and the word vegan means “a person who does not eat or use any animal products, such as meat, fish, eggs, cheese, or leather” (definitions from the Cambrigde dictionary), so maybe if you don’t want to change the language you need to come up with some other name, which have not this contradiction in itself ( and personally I think it would be better from a marketing point of view)
Well, I can say the same about the vegan meat abomination.
It makes sense to call it sex because it clearly imitates sex and I don’t want to decipher what “masturbation” means first.
Words have fucking meaning. They need to have for communication to not break down. Don’t get your recipe book in a twist if people like their meaning to stay the same.
What is the meaning of steak? Is it enough to kill some animal and write steak on the package? Or do you care which animal it was? If you don’t buy [generic steak] you likely would want to know which animal the flesh is from and it requires another word to describe it. Horse steak is as fine of a descritption as saitan steak.
This https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/steak
And I can tell which animal it was by just looking at it both the look of the meat and the cut. Unless it’s not meat and it’s designed to look like a (usually beef) steak, in which case I might be induced to think it’s a beef steak. Which is the whole point here, France is regulating so this does not happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak
So you can distinct between all these animals flesh but you feel challanged to read “plant based meat”
Oh good lord, you all have the same edgy argument on this thread. Are you gonna tell me that I need to learn how to read next, or that I am an idiot, and that the problem is just me?
Millions of people buy their meat as I just described. They expect to be able to do so moving forward. If youbare used to grab a head of broccoli and move on why do you need someone to start questioning how you chose it, how do you really knownits not cabbage, and really don’t you even read if it’s organic or where it comes from?
Yes in many cases the label can be misleading. A whole country just legislated about it. I’m not french but agree this is the right decision.
I’m all for veganism and vegetarianism. And for plant based products. I also like to fuckong know what I am buying without having to dissect it.
Then go vegan and learn how you have to truly dissect food and read the ingredients to find if it contains something like pig bone powder.
If you don’t want to then legislate for a label like the (V)egan label and put it on all products made from animals, I would still support you. Telling a vegan how hard it is to read ingredients is weak.
No I’m not going vegan we should both be able to make out food choices and not have to second guess. That’s my whole fucking point about not mislabelling food.
I’m telling a vegan that reading ingredients could be even harder if we don’t regulate and use the right words. The fact that you had it hard doesn’t mean everyone else should.
The ingredient list is already regulated. We could make it easier for all with a “animal product” label but at the moment it is only the animal industry which is lobbying for restrictive product names. I am against restrictions of names but in favor for a clear declaration of ingredients.
Words do have meaning, but that meaning is not set in stone. I’d argue that plant based sausages, schnitzel, burgers, steaks, bacon etc. are still just that. It’s more about the form factor than what exactly it’s made of.
It should of course clearly be stated on the package what’s inside.
I don’t see how “Vegan Bacon” might be a problem.
You’d argue that in France as a vendor, and you’d go to jail. Other countries will follow soon and I can see France Italy and Spain to push for this as a European law.
Not a problem for you doesn’t mean that it’s okay for all customer of a country or of the eu, it can be misleading.
That’s cause France sucks.
It makes sense to call it a woman because it clearly has a hole and I don’t want to decipher what “fleshlight” means.
EDIT: Oh, du sprichst deutsch. Bratling. Is das denn so schwer.
Fuck off transphobe.
I don’t think you argue in good faith. Also, Bratling is not a good word for many vegan meat substitutes.
Oh I do I’m just being crass. Let me try again:
It makes sense to call it a beer because it comes in a bottle and I don’t want to decipher what “alcoholic soda with artificial flavour” means.
…are there any substitutes that are neither Bratling nor Saitan (which is well-established?). Don’t buy the latter and make the former myself so I wouldn’t know. In my mind substitutes have no place in proper recipes but that’s a personal thing, a Bratling doesn’t try to be meat it just tries, and succeeds, at being a Frikadelle – something that you can put on a bun, or eat cold, or drench in sauce, really it’s astonishing how interchangeable the two are precisely because a good Bratling doesn’t try to imitate a product, but replicate a function.
There are tons of products that neither qualify as Bratling nor are made from seitan. Seitan is specifically wheat protein. Many things are based on soy, peas, beans etc.
Also, why would I use an umbrella term like “seitan product” when I could just call the vegan sausage a vegan sausage?
They do have a meaning, yes. And ultraprocessed vegan steaks fulfill the general functions of a steak, so I don’t see what the fuss is all about. There are different kinds of actual meat steaks, and they can’t be used interchangeably. I wouldn’t eat a chicken “steak tartare”, for instance. So differences are allowed as long as the general description matches. And I think we’ll need to agree to disagree, but I have enough imagination to qualify the vegan sewage roll as sausage, because they can be used as substitutes for meat sausages in a meal.
You language prescriptivists are fighting a lost battle anyway. If people call it a steak, it is a steak, the Académie Française be damned. Languages aren’t decided centrally. The language’s speakers collectively make it what it is.
Handjobs are sex and you should definitely be including them when your doctor asks if you’ve had any sexual activity recently in your STI risk factors diffusion.
Brigaded by vegans. Would love to see a thread about products labelled as vegan actually containing meat or eggs but only listed in the fine print. Their mouths would he froting about the actual.meaning of the word vegan and the importance of not mislabelling profucts
The word “meat” describes physical objects that fulfill a specific function, for which you can find substitutes. Sausage is an oblong object made of a casing filled with protein. Steak designates a (honestly delicious) slab of protein.
Dictionaries haven’t caught up with modern uses of terms like “steak” or “sausage”, but it doesn’t really matter, because they don’t decide language centrally. Their role is to document how language is at a given point in time. And the consensus for the majority is that a steak is meat, but that is not set in stone. Things are changing. A growing proportion of people has started calling vegan sausage vegan sausage. Dictionaries might eventually follow the majority, if that majority ever materializes.
Vegan foods mean, at the very least, that a food contains no animal products. Eggs don’t fit the bill, by any stretch of imagination. It’s a straight-up lie, like saying an American Camembert is an AOP Camembert de Normandie. I don’t think you made a strong case here.
And look, I haven’t adopted all the newspeak myself. I don’t like the word “vegan steak”, because it strays too far from my definition of what steak is. Fake sausage and milk work for me. But my point is that my own stance doesn’t matter. It’s what the majority thinks that matters.