Happens about February-March of every election year (the, ahem, independent media goes out of its way to induce it). Get ready for the next lib wave, and a bunch of iterations of the following script, which they’ve been practicing since like 1999:
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- “Eh, I disagree with [Democrat candidate] on a lot of things, but to pretend he’s not better than [Republican candidate] is just delusional.”
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- “Yeah, I know [Democratic candidate] is a war criminal and complicit in a genocide, but have you considered that [Republican candidate] is a war criminal as well, plus he said rude things about [minority group]? In the interest of harm reduction for Americans only, I have a duty to vote Democrat.”
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- “Your vote actually does matter.”
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- “The only reason the Democrats aren’t Wholesome Progressive Scandinavian Model Chungus is because they have to play politics with the Republicans. You have to recognize the reality of a two-party system.”
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- “We can push the Democrats left.”
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- “Such-and-such Democratic policy (usually the Affordable Care Act) was actually really progressive.”
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- “My [minority group] partner, whom I’ve never mentioned up to this point and very possibly just made up, is voting Democrat.” (This tactic also gets used by libs defending porn and/or prostitution, e.g. “my totally-real girlfriend loves it when I post videos of us having sex online”).
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- “If even one less person dies because [Democratic candidate] is in office, it’s my moral duty to vote for [Democratic candidate]. I am a mature, compassionate person who absolutely understands socialism.”
I’m not trying to argue or anything here
But I’d like to say that I do enjoy the part of like Giving a person an orgasm or like, getting to know their body
And I know that it doesn’t actually produce anything
But I’d like to feel like ive done something more helpful for the world than survive a little longer I guess
And I guess I didn’t realize that some people dont mean what I mean when I say legalize the sex industry which is that the individual women should be making decisions about it and protected by law or like, safe houses, whereas any pimping is imprisonable. That being said though, I do want the industry to dwindle, cuz like just having enough money and doing orgies would obvs be much better than this.
I wanna give people love and pleasure, and some part of me feels like that has value, but it feels like the money truncates those feelings for them. I guess the best way to give back physically would be like a sex-worker only hotel they could live in semi-permanently. I tend to help people with sexual trauma, so it would be nice if I could still do that.
I suppose that would suggest I might make a good therapist, so that would be a nice career path outside of the industry if I didn’t have so much tech education already.
Sorry for the ramble, I just felt like a bad leftist for doing this kind of work
You are not a bad leftist. There is no criticism we should give sex workers while we live under capitalism, only in a system that has already guaranteed much greater amounts of economic equality can the idea of abolishing sex work be tackled, and anyone who says otherwise kind of sucks.
And yes, your work is honestly incredibly similar to therapy (I’ve had to hear so many stories from friends in sex work) and is actually very real work, and can be very personally rewarding. Just stay safe!
I really appreciate that
I get a lot of “you’re bringing women down” so I appreciate knowing there’s support out there
I just wanna make ppl happy and I don’t mess around with married men or like “advertise” myself so it every strange when those accusations come in (though I fully support putting the goods on display and tbh don’t blame the ladies who take married men)
I will stay safe! I’ve been invited to go out to the country but that’s sketch as hell so I keep it local lol
Thanks for validating me
It’s definitely not your problem to deal with people’s marital status, although if you have personal moral qualms that’s fine (I personally refuse to involve myself with people who are having relationship issues and have turned down a number of people over it (I’m not a sex worker)). In the end it’s work and you getting by, and whatever positives can be taken from it are cool and good.
I’ve definitely seen the toll sex work has taken on others, though, and it sucks. I often think about it in terms of the damage my own labor has done to me, and that fuels a lot of desires to upend the system. I have a friend in the business that cannot help but shame or critique whatever interactions I have with women, and constantly fluctuates between hating men and returning to dating them, and I feel awful for her knowing that it’s very related to not only her personal history but also the work that she now does to support herself. I mostly worry for her overall safety and her future.
It’s all very complicated, and in a better world at least we could ensure that the women doing this work are not being economically coerced into it. But so many of us are forced into a similar trade off anyways
On the subject of the damage, I kinda feel like mine was kinda this overwhelming and encompassing pressure to make me sexual property, so now I tend to think men feel that way as default.
Like…I appreciate that the non weirdos are being polite and keeping their distance cuz they’re stunned by my beauty or some shit but it means that the only guys who approach me in person are dangerously horny, where I definitely don’t want them as a client. People like that are going to argue with me on price and try to do stuff I haven’t agreed to so no thank you
This is a valid perspective, and I appreciate you bringing it up, and also the fact that you do not want to argue. But you must realize that – and let me repeat, the orthodox Marxist position is not, and never has been, against sex workers – the form of sex work which exists under socialism would be so different from sex work under capitalism as to virtually be an entirely different industry. Indeed, I have a hard time seeing how it could come about under anything but the final stage of communism, where money and class distinctions have been entirely done away with, and labor becomes, in Marx’s words, “life’s prime want.” I recognize, however, that material reality is greater than I am, and perhaps there is a way to square the circle. Though the fact that nearly all, if not all, AES countries are opposed to the sex industry makes me somewhat dubious.
Most people do enjoy giving someone an orgasm, and getting to know their body. It is a valuable part of the human experience. But to be a industry, a non-exploitative industry anyway, it would have to be something like art, or (as you’ve mentioned) therapy. And neither of these can be the backbone of an economy, since real wealth comes from production. Socialist countries obviously have their artists, like David Oistrakh and the great pianist Yudina; and of course they also have therapists. But they are always a minority, even if what they do benefits many people. This is against the tendency of the sex industry in the in the west, which capital is now pushing into aggressive expansion.
I don’t think you will find any serious communist who really disagrees with this.
No worries at all, I thought it was coherent and well-thought out.
There is absolutely no reason you should be feeling that, and if my post gave off that tone, I apologize. I do admit to having, based on some things I have seen and the experiences of certain acquaintances, a burning hatred of pimps and johns, and I probably express this immoderately at times.
I mean I would love to give people orgasms as a form of art
That sounds amazing honestly
I mean this is like, really stupid but when I was way too young to be thinking of these things I kinda wanted to known as the person who could help people with sex in almost a spiritual way? Like where I’m seen as highly respected for my skill and care? I already kinda get the stares that I’m like, ethereal or some bullshit but I’d also like that gaze to include some reverence I guess since I feel like my aura is more tantric and calm than anything salacious.
Anyways, I know that marxists support sex workers but I guess I interpreted your tone as militant and prohibitive, rather than protective. I do appreciate and accept the apology you gave, and I also respect your commitment to ideological soundness. This is gonna sound pretty dumb but I wish I had the mental energy to do the same but reading theory puts my material condition in such sharp relief that I tend to dissociate or cry? I feel like such a waste of potential but also such a fucking whiner cuz I don’t take the tools people are shoving into my hands but maybe it’s just cuz I took my estrogen shot an hour ago.
Also, thank you for calling my writing well-thought out. I really do pore over the things I say when I preface a comment with a promise of genuine care, but I struggle to keep my emotions to myself, clearly. 🤧😛
Removed by mod
I repent, and denounce the other disgusting bigoted prudes who have wormed their way into the socialist movement! Prudes like
and so on. It is true that most of the leaders on this list have built their countries into economic powerhouses with full worker control, and one of them (Xi Jinping) leads the country that is the economic engine of the entire world. But that nothing, I suppose, compared to what western Marxists have achieved sitting in the comfort of their easy chair. All hail comrade Dirt_Possum, who leads the glorious People’s Republic of the WestTM! (Free Taiwan and Slava Ukraini, and let’s put up yet another version of the map showing China as “East Turkmenistan”).
While can make an argument this is true, it is at this point in time extremely academic, since the sex trade is not in any sense necessary, and it is hyper-exploitative. Generally the only people I hear making it are out-of-touch liberal college professors, and johns who want to justify their buying of sex: “dude, when I’m paying this homeless transwoman trump change for a bj, I’m really no different from a regular small business owner! It’s capitalism, baby, not me! Rad!”
And yet you were the one who felt the need to derail a thread about electoralism into a conversation about sex. Nice work, Mr. Freud.