Israeli intelligence sources reveal use of ‘Lavender’ system in Gaza war and claim permission given to kill civilians in pursuit of low-ranking militants
Right so because they aren’t obvious in a crowd it’s better to murder the whole crowd? Are kids Hamas? Cuz there’s a whole lot of murdered kids on Israel’s hands.
Maybe not, but why people ask only to Israel to respect internations laws and the Geneva convention ? The Geneva convention has a series of stipulations and one of them said explicitly that if you don’t respect it for your enemy you loose the right to invoke it for yourself.
So, Hamas openly ignore any international law and openly admitted it (Hamas leaders said that they use their civilians as shields to the scope to have everyone pressure Israel) but somehow Israel is the bad guy.
Man, I don’t like it, I think it is very sad and nasty, but the more time pass the more I am thinking that all this is the application of the “they fucked around then they found out” applied to the Gazan civilians. Israel left Gaza years ago (10 ? 15?), they had the possibility to elect their government and they choose Hamas, which has in its constitution to destroy Israel, they let Hamas to steal all the international aids. Now they are in the situation to be used as human shield by the same people they elected. Maybe it they wanted to live in peace, they should have choose more wisely…
BTW, I am old enough to remember Palestinian women and children to celebrate the attack on the twin towers back in 2001, so maybe they are not really as innocent as they want to be seen from the others.
If you want people to follow sophistics instead of what they see, then at least those should be consistent.
They didn’t choose Hamas, not in any legitimate election. The “they let” part you could also apply to them letting Israel bomb them.
Ultimately they are victims of the Israeli state which blockaded Gaza, killed its inhabitants when it saw fit and at the same time pretends than anything in response to that can be unjust.
Probably standards have changed within generations. Now, we’re at a point where younger people feel free to criticize their own military. There are people who hates US military back when Iraq War was a thing that has a beef with IDF. It’s more sympathy toward people that did not sign up for combat, and acknowledging that engagement should ever be between combatants. Older people simply don’t understand that yet.
They’re starting to get pushback with their more methodical genocide and you somehow think they could get away with just instantly wiping out Gaza from the map (especially many years ago when it was bigger)? Hey, maybe israel is special and can pull it off, but this is still a genocide either way.
I did not said that. I said that if they really wanted then they had a lot of opportunities to do it in the past. Now they probably don’t care as long as they are left alone by Hamas.
This is Israel going ahead with the genocide because this is the Israeli government is finally “conservative” enough to actually do it instead of just talking about it.
The judicial reforms were one indicator, this invasion is another.
Already said, it is sad and nasty but I cannot avoid to think that this is the only possible outcome given how Hamas and the Gaza civilian decided to act.
voted for Hamas, well knowing what the Hamas political program were/is
let Hamas steal all the aids that the rest of the world send them
let Hamas use them as shields
let Hamas to destroy that little infrastructures they had to build weapopns
agree with Hamas to ever refuse any possible peacefull solution
let Hamas put weapons in their homes
let Hamas hide in their homes
celebrate, even women and children, every attack on the west (they celebrate the twin Towers attack, but I know, it is not on YT or Goggle so it does not exist)
and now they are getting what they voted for. I mean, you cannot continually hit Mike Tyson in the face and then go crying to your mother when he hit back…
I only want that they will be hold accountable for the consequences of their own choices, like everyone should be. Is that that wrong ?
Most Palestinians agree that Hamas should recognize Israel’s right to exist. Two-thirds (63 percent) of those polled Jan. 27-29 by Near East Consulting said Hamas should change its position calling for the elimination of Israel. Even among those who voted for Hamas, only 37 percent support Hamas’ position that Israel does not have the right to exist.
Apparently the vast majority of Palestinians did not vote for Hamas because of its political goals but because of their desire to rid the Palestinian Authority of corruption, a theme Hamas campaigned on. Among those polled by JMCC who said they voted for Hamas, only 12 percent said they did so because of Hamas’ political agenda. A plurality of 43 percent said they voted for Hamas because they hoped it would end corruption.
Furthermore it should be noted that Hamas did not receive the majority of the popular vote. With the Palestinians’ mixed system of proportional representation according to party support for half the seats and district seats based on population for the other half, Hamas was able to take 58 percent of all seats with only 45 percent of the overall popular vote (the 58 percent includes three independents who campaigned with Hamas).
The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.'* In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.”‘°° This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.!°! (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.’°)
page 240
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
History of Hamas:
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Revised charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter
It’s almost like Human Rights Organization hold everyone accountable, it’s just that Israel does magnitudes more war crimes and violations of international law for longer than the existence of Hamas.
You apparently think that you can’t get punished for unfinished genocide, or for one that you didn’t like. As if punishment were some expense for doing it. It’s not, and nobody owes fiends anything (and due process doesn’t exist between states).
You’ll soon see that nuance is dead on Lemmy. Hamas indubitably commits war crimes en masse, as does the IDF, but morons will only ever excuse those of Hamas, rather than condemning both sets of actions.
I think nuance goes out the door when tens of thousands of innocent civilians are butchered in the name of defense.
Hamas is bad, that doesn’t excuse Israel’s actions.
I don’t agree. Neither the IDF nor Hamas fall under Geneva Convention (GC) protections because both have brazenly and repeatedly contravened it, thus excluding themselves under the GC’s own stipulations. They are both doing sick shit and are both lending more fuel to each other’s propaganda fires.
Oh so human rights just end when some armed folks feel like and that’s all fine and dandy?
And why ought Palestinian civilians be subjected to the disregard of human rights that the IDF and even Hamas have? Sounds like you are thinking of the Palestinian people as interchangeable with Hamas, such as the people may be punished by their acts and they can’t complain about it.
You speak of nuance but if anything you are erasing nuance. “Both sides bad so it’s all fair”. Nevermind relative civilian death tolls, infrastructure and household damage. Nevermind the whole history of this conflict going back decades.
Absolutely not, but when you insist on putting words in my mouth and then arguing with that straw man, there is little use in arguing. You are here to hold forth, not discuss.
Speaking of “international law”, what uniform do Hamas fighters wear?
Right so because they aren’t obvious in a crowd it’s better to murder the whole crowd? Are kids Hamas? Cuz there’s a whole lot of murdered kids on Israel’s hands.
Sound logic my guy
Maybe not, but why people ask only to Israel to respect internations laws and the Geneva convention ? The Geneva convention has a series of stipulations and one of them said explicitly that if you don’t respect it for your enemy you loose the right to invoke it for yourself.
So, Hamas openly ignore any international law and openly admitted it (Hamas leaders said that they use their civilians as shields to the scope to have everyone pressure Israel) but somehow Israel is the bad guy.
Man, I don’t like it, I think it is very sad and nasty, but the more time pass the more I am thinking that all this is the application of the “they fucked around then they found out” applied to the Gazan civilians. Israel left Gaza years ago (10 ? 15?), they had the possibility to elect their government and they choose Hamas, which has in its constitution to destroy Israel, they let Hamas to steal all the international aids. Now they are in the situation to be used as human shield by the same people they elected. Maybe it they wanted to live in peace, they should have choose more wisely…
BTW, I am old enough to remember Palestinian women and children to celebrate the attack on the twin towers back in 2001, so maybe they are not really as innocent as they want to be seen from the others.
If you want people to follow sophistics instead of what they see, then at least those should be consistent.
They didn’t choose Hamas, not in any legitimate election. The “they let” part you could also apply to them letting Israel bomb them.
Ultimately they are victims of the Israeli state which blockaded Gaza, killed its inhabitants when it saw fit and at the same time pretends than anything in response to that can be unjust.
Probably standards have changed within generations. Now, we’re at a point where younger people feel free to criticize their own military. There are people who hates US military back when Iraq War was a thing that has a beef with IDF. It’s more sympathy toward people that did not sign up for combat, and acknowledging that engagement should ever be between combatants. Older people simply don’t understand that yet.
Guerrilla Warfare isn’t a new concept. Especially when fighting in home territory.
True, but Guerrilla Warfare tactic has its consequences. You use it, you need to be ready to pay the cost.
What a wild way to justify Occupation, Apartheid, and Genocide.
I am not justifying anything, I am only saying that if you make a decision there are consequences.
Apparently world central kitchen uniforms you fucking monster.
This justifies genocide in your mind?
Man, do you people realize that if Israel really wanted to commit a genocide then Gaza would have been erased from the map many years ago, right ?
They’re starting to get pushback with their more methodical genocide and you somehow think they could get away with just instantly wiping out Gaza from the map (especially many years ago when it was bigger)? Hey, maybe israel is special and can pull it off, but this is still a genocide either way.
I did not said that. I said that if they really wanted then they had a lot of opportunities to do it in the past. Now they probably don’t care as long as they are left alone by Hamas.
It’s being erased and they are really committing it.
Maybe they didn’t want to commit it when the world was a sunnier place and that would get them punished real quick.
This is Israel going ahead with the genocide because this is the Israeli government is finally “conservative” enough to actually do it instead of just talking about it.
The judicial reforms were one indicator, this invasion is another.
Israel has jumped the shark.
Already said, it is sad and nasty but I cannot avoid to think that this is the only possible outcome given how Hamas and the Gaza civilian decided to act.
You are blaming the CIVILIANS in Gaza?
WTF.
I hope you were well paid to voice that opinion, otherwise …
Well, your CIVILIANS
and now they are getting what they voted for. I mean, you cannot continually hit Mike Tyson in the face and then go crying to your mother when he hit back…
I only want that they will be hold accountable for the consequences of their own choices, like everyone should be. Is that that wrong ?
You’re that wrong
Most Palestinians Believe Hamas Should Change its Position on Eliminating Israel - WPO March 2, 2006
The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
What Is Hamas? - Council on Foreign Relations
What Does Hamas Actually Want? - NY Mag
Hamas Election - Snopes
Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter
The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Revised charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he’s not Palestinian.
When it comes to human shields, the only independent verification back in 2014 (Amnesty link) is of Weapons (not rockets) hidden at a vacant school, situated btwn 2 UNRWA schools housing displaced people, by a Palestinian armed group.
The Guardian journalists had encountered a couple individuals in 2014 too.
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Amnesty on Hamas War Crimes 2023
Yet none of those come remotely close to making hospitals and schools bombing targets. Even if all the IDF claims were true, that does not exempt those hospitals and schools as protected under international law.
Additionally, let’s look at how the IDF uses Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace
Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel) and Summery by the International Court of Justice
ICJ Order 28 March 2024
Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated
AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
Nice, now show me all the times that was asked to Hamas to follow the same laws.
One thing of the war laws is that if you don’t follow them with me, you cannot ask me to follow them with you. And I would be in the right.
Israel: Palestinian armed groups must be held accountable for deliberate civilian killings, abductions and indiscriminate attacks
Hamas committed multiple war crimes with ‘indiscriminate’ rockets and mortars
It’s almost like Human Rights Organization hold everyone accountable, it’s just that Israel does magnitudes more war crimes and violations of international law for longer than the existence of Hamas.
There is no genocide, if there was the casualty figure would be far higher.
Getting higher every day. Majority children.
You apparently think that you can’t get punished for unfinished genocide, or for one that you didn’t like. As if punishment were some expense for doing it. It’s not, and nobody owes fiends anything (and due process doesn’t exist between states).
You’ll soon see that nuance is dead on Lemmy. Hamas indubitably commits war crimes en masse, as does the IDF, but morons will only ever excuse those of Hamas, rather than condemning both sets of actions.
I think nuance goes out the door when tens of thousands of innocent civilians are butchered in the name of defense. Hamas is bad, that doesn’t excuse Israel’s actions.
I don’t agree. Neither the IDF nor Hamas fall under Geneva Convention (GC) protections because both have brazenly and repeatedly contravened it, thus excluding themselves under the GC’s own stipulations. They are both doing sick shit and are both lending more fuel to each other’s propaganda fires.
Oh so human rights just end when some armed folks feel like and that’s all fine and dandy?
And why ought Palestinian civilians be subjected to the disregard of human rights that the IDF and even Hamas have? Sounds like you are thinking of the Palestinian people as interchangeable with Hamas, such as the people may be punished by their acts and they can’t complain about it.
You speak of nuance but if anything you are erasing nuance. “Both sides bad so it’s all fair”. Nevermind relative civilian death tolls, infrastructure and household damage. Nevermind the whole history of this conflict going back decades.
Absolutely not, but when you insist on putting words in my mouth and then arguing with that straw man, there is little use in arguing. You are here to hold forth, not discuss.
Cool evasion bro. You’re sure dedicated to the nuance you are calling dead.