🏳️‍⚧️Siobhán Sarelle

@largess @ajsadauskas @CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @green

Absolutely, I think reuse and limiting the amount of packaging are the most likely effective technical ways of dealing with the environmental issue.

@ajsadauskas @CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @green

Some stuff:

I think all but 2 Australian states have the container deposit scheme.

The earliest was put in place in 1977.

3 common thermoplastic types are recyclable but the recycling of low-density polyethylene was discontinued in 2022 (plastic bags, 6 pack rings etc).

Littering is still prevalent.

Littering on beaches has been cut by 29 percent over a 6 year period.

In 2020, Australia recycled 16% of its plastic packaging,

Most of Australia’s waste goes to landfill. Probably all litter does.

China stopped imports leading to Australia not being able to recycle much or most of its recyclable waste.

Australia produces about 20 million tonnes of landfill waste each year for 600 official landfill sites and maybe 2,000 with unofficial sites.

75% of landfill waste goes to 38 sites.

60% of the average bin is organic waste.

@ajsadauskas @CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @green

I realise that perhaps this discussion started with recycling more stuff, but I don’t think that is the prime issue, for me the prime issue is reducing suffering, reducing risk or impact on the environment and of climate catastrophe, and I think that requires more than trying to do better recycling.

@ajsadauskas @CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @green

I used to do the returning bottles thing and getting a little money back, as a child.

It would likely require enough people to give a shit. The people who do, are probably the people who have a shit anyway. Or it’s not enough reward to make it work.

The point about other people picking up someone else’s litter is a good one, but why not just pay more people to pick up litter?

That doesn’t change the culture, it probably makes it worse since there’s the attitude that stuff is disposable and there will always be someone else to clean up.

I think in practice, it might reduce the problem in some places, but mostly it is unlikely it will, particularly in the most populated areas.

Also much of the problem here is with the stuff that was in the containers and then of course there is still the issue of much of the containers not being recyclable.

@CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @ajsadauskas @green

We could fix recycling, we could reuse more. Many places have a problem with litter. Litter doesn’t necessarily get recycled. Litter is I think a good indication of the problem with culture and valuing things.

Walking near school routes, around the sides of roads etc, plenty of plastic bottles and so on, discarded. It’s not massive corporations doing that.

@CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @ajsadauskas @green

Btw, I wasn’t necessarily advocating anything with my comment about people putting ourselves and immediate fairly brief and small perceived benefits over the environment.

I was pointing out the fact that we do, and therefore each time we do, at that point, it follows that we deprioritise the environment, using up resources, pollution md so forth.

I do it, practically everyone does it.

I can of course spend lots of time complaining about companies not being better, companies which exist and do things this way because we buy their products and consume them, which can take years, or I can do that *and* at least change my behaviour where I can. That requires accepting I am part of the problem, undoing avoidance behaviour stuff, and some sacrifice, which isn’t easy as I think we are caught in a cycle of it, but it may be necessary.

@CinciMike @Urban_Hermit @ajsadauskas @green

People already do.

@Urban_Hermit @ajsadauskas @green

We have climate crisis.

We have people buying unnecessary stuff that unnecessarily uses up resources, energy, fossil fuels, and pollutes the environment.

Clearly largely we are putting pleasure and convenience over the environment and climate crisis.

I don’t see how that could be denied.

@skyfire101 @energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @green

Then there is going back to glass. My earliest memories of drinking pop, featured the milk man delivering bottles of fizzy pop through a hatch in the shed.

@skyfire101 @energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @green

This also reminds me: lots of paper is not recyclable either.

@skyfire101 @energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @green

There are people that would have sent the book back.

There are publishers that throw out books for very minor issues.

I used to live near one and could get perfectly good books for free. They lock it all up now.

@skyfire101 @energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @green

Coca Cola and Pepsi ship out the syrup to lots of places already, for cafes etc that have cola on tap.

The mechanism already exists to some degree,

@skyfire101 @energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @green

Is the book still bent?

@skyfire101 @energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @green

That sounds more like an issue with shipping than with Amazon’s packaging.

Books just need to be handled differently and then probably placed with similar items.

@Urban_Hermit @ajsadauskas @green

Rather than calling it guilting, perhaps take it as good advice?

Often essentially all the focus is placed on the companies who produce the stuff, then we go and buy little plastic bottles of cola.

We don’t need to drink cola.

Clearly in that case, in buying the cola, we are putting brief pleasure and convenience over the environment. Maybe while telling ourselves we have a conscience and trying to place the responsibility solely with companies that exist because people buy the product.

@energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @skyfire101 @green

I wonder about the viability for a business that, for example, produces cola and other soft drinks, keeps them in large containers, then goes around filling people’s home containers up

@energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @skyfire101 @green

Legislation would be good, to stop this, before that though, possibly avoiding places that do use excessive plastic packaging.

Avoiding online shopping could be good, but for some people that might mean using a car to go and do the shopping, which likely has a greater impact on the environment than the packaging, or having it delivered by a single vehicle that delivers to many homes,

@IronCurtain @ajsadauskas @green

Depends on where you are and what plastics. Generally plastic film is not recycled.

Much of the problem is still due to people not realising what can or cannot be recycled, placing things that are too dirty into the recycling, and contaminating the entire recycling bin.

@energisch_ @cooopsspace @ajsadauskas @skyfire101 @green

I go to the shop for groceries, I put the products in a reusable bag.

I have my groceries delivered, I put the products in a resizable bag at the door.

I buy cosmetics from a shop. I put them in a reusable bag.

I have cosmetics delivered, they come in a small cardboard box.

Generally speaking, apart from stuff from eBay where the seller appears to have used a whole roll of plastic tape, maybe some often biodegradable packing material, there is little difference in use of plastic packaging.

The issue appears to be more with how the products themselves are packaged, and the lack of reusable containers.