This isn’t going to be popular, but part of the problem is not acknowledging that 42%. It’s fucking insulting, frankly. Plenty of women voted for the bear.
Chances are that many of the people crying about men voting trump, are part of a demographic that mostly voted trump.
Trump apparently won the popular vote anyway. Most of everyone who voted, voted trump. But let’s focus on men and then be surprised that young men who are very insecure about themselves anyway, feel attacked by the left and choose the right.
Please don’t get me confused, I don’t think it’s good this many men voted for The Stain. Also, 52% of WHITE women, but I bet if you combined ALL women, that number would drop dramatically.
My broader point is, IMO, that 42% never gets talked about so why would it grow, yeah?
Or, put another way, when I talk about women, who are my allies against the Patriarchy, I speak of why I like them (because I do, I LOVE women). They are resilient, strong, resourceful, grounded, etc, all the good stuff, and I try to include all women in that, they are my allies. I try NOT to focus on trad wives, manipulators, “gold diggers”, abusers, weirdos like MTG or Caitlyn Jenner , you know, bad people (and there are plenty).
But when I hear about men in the ally space, it feels like I hear all about how awful and dangerous we are and that’s it. And there’s ALWAYS this group of guys willing to go along with it and point and go “yeah, we totally suck! You guys saying we don’t are the real problem!” But, how is that motivating to anyone? It makes me upset, anyways. Maybe I’m just a big emotional baby, who knows?
Honest question, why so defensive? This post is demographic blaming, but am I supposed to go, “oh yeah I suck even though I am an ally.” Is that it? Is that what you want? Subservience? Or an honest conversation so we can move forward?
I just don’t know if its all that valuable. The real change is not that Trump got a bunch of extra votes, its that nobody came out to vote for Harris, the percentages largely are distorted on that basis. Latinos opted to not vote so trump got a higher percentage of latinos, possibly because of Harris’ right wing immigration arguments.
The vice presidential debate where walz sat there and agreed with vance was the truth of this election.
Women largely didnt come out to vote for Harris for some reason despite abortion ballot initiatives being largely successful. I’ve heard enough stories that its possible GOP largely just challenged every woman’s signature/voter status on every ballot they could across america.
Meanwhile the right is actively recruiting young men. The name “Manosphere” for their recruitment cedes that ground to them with no resistance. “That’s just how men are, they hate women and vote for Trump because celebrities tell them to.” The right is actively selling their ideology to young men, the left isn’t.
The left has TONS for men. You think men thrive under the patriarchy? Not being able to express emotions, not being able to express fraternal love, not being able to pursue “womanly” or"gay" passions. Men have rarely been more alone and less happy than they are now and left wing ideology can free them.
The left just doesn’t reach out like the right does. We could do a much better job.
The online left also doesn’t do a great job calling out sexism and other behaviours that uphold the patriarchy when it victimizes men. That’s pretty shameful and it’s hard for men to feel safe online in leftist spaces. In person I’ve never had a problem and people have been wonderful. But it’s a barrier to overcome that isn’t there on the right. The right says “you’re amazing because you’re a man, join us and regain your rightful amazing place that your deserve”. That’s a hard message when one side says you’re amazing as you are and the other, the side that prides itself of being open and accepting, is proud to tell you you’re worse than a bear and you shouldn’t feel hurt by that because it’s what you deserve.
That’s exactly it. The right is telling them they STILL have to be impossibly during stupid brutish and horny. That’s basically what an “Alpha Male ™” is. Only the left has an escape for that toxic definition of masculinity, I’m frankly baffled at how we’re losing the fight for boys and men. I’ve never seen the left fumble so badly. But there are a lot of great men on the left working HARD to fix that, so I have hope for the future
I mean, I’m out. Doesn’t matter what I do or how I vote I’m going to be called the enemy by the left anyway. They are adamant that I am their enemy and that they are mine. So that’s how it’s gonna be.
Lol “I don’t want to be a right wing asshole, I’m only doing this because you hurt my feelings”
Dude that’s the weakest thing I’ve ever heard. Being in the left means constantly fighting and being attacked by other leftists for being the wrong kind of leftist. That’s what it takes to be on the left and you never had it, it’s what the kids call a skill issue.
Go be a right wing asshole all you want but don’t pretend you didn’t want it all along!
Why do you accept that young men voted for Trump. But when you’re told, using the same source of data, that white women did too suddenly you’re all questions?
As a guy who used to be a young man and with a lot of young men as friends, retrospectively yeah, most issues were based in insecurities. You really want to be an adult and you feel like you should be one but you don’t know how to be one. You go out and want to meet girls and you are scared of the rejection.
You can act like that is “anti-masculine” sentiment but it isn’t. It is an understanding of humans.
Just as a sidenote, based on my experience every young adult is struggling with insecurities.
Every young adult is struggling with insecurities.
This is a totally different statement.
You can act like that is “anti-masculine” sentiment but it isn’t
Saying men are insecure when it’s the case across the board means it’s fair game to call you out. It sounds like fundamentally we don’t disagree though.
Boooo. As a father of boys and girls it’s a HARD world for both right now. Completely different fights but let me tell you that my boys are suffering as much as my girls due to patriarchal expectations for their behaviours and the consequences of not complying.
The patriarchy is the problem, not boys. Don’t let your fears push you to hatred of a whole group of people that are just trying their best to be good people. It’s hard for young boys to resist the messages of the patriarchy, that was half the message in the Barbie movie. We can hate the behaviours without hating boys. We can solve the problem by tackling boys and men’s issues caused by the patriarchy and dismantle it together. We can’t dismantle the patriarchy by alienating, scapegoating, and allowing ourselves to hate so much of the population.
This isn’t going to be popular, but part of the problem is not acknowledging that 42%. It’s fucking insulting, frankly. Plenty of women voted for the bear.
52% of white women voted for trump.
Chances are that many of the people crying about men voting trump, are part of a demographic that mostly voted trump.
Trump apparently won the popular vote anyway. Most of everyone who voted, voted trump. But let’s focus on men and then be surprised that young men who are very insecure about themselves anyway, feel attacked by the left and choose the right.
Please don’t get me confused, I don’t think it’s good this many men voted for The Stain. Also, 52% of WHITE women, but I bet if you combined ALL women, that number would drop dramatically.
My broader point is, IMO, that 42% never gets talked about so why would it grow, yeah?
Or, put another way, when I talk about women, who are my allies against the Patriarchy, I speak of why I like them (because I do, I LOVE women). They are resilient, strong, resourceful, grounded, etc, all the good stuff, and I try to include all women in that, they are my allies. I try NOT to focus on trad wives, manipulators, “gold diggers”, abusers, weirdos like MTG or Caitlyn Jenner , you know, bad people (and there are plenty).
But when I hear about men in the ally space, it feels like I hear all about how awful and dangerous we are and that’s it. And there’s ALWAYS this group of guys willing to go along with it and point and go “yeah, we totally suck! You guys saying we don’t are the real problem!” But, how is that motivating to anyone? It makes me upset, anyways. Maybe I’m just a big emotional baby, who knows?
Anyways, I’m blabbing. Bad habit of mine.
while were demographic blaming you might as well start talking about latinos
An I demographic blaming?
Honest question, why so defensive? This post is demographic blaming, but am I supposed to go, “oh yeah I suck even though I am an ally.” Is that it? Is that what you want? Subservience? Or an honest conversation so we can move forward?
I just don’t know if its all that valuable. The real change is not that Trump got a bunch of extra votes, its that nobody came out to vote for Harris, the percentages largely are distorted on that basis. Latinos opted to not vote so trump got a higher percentage of latinos, possibly because of Harris’ right wing immigration arguments.
The vice presidential debate where walz sat there and agreed with vance was the truth of this election.
Women largely didnt come out to vote for Harris for some reason despite abortion ballot initiatives being largely successful. I’ve heard enough stories that its possible GOP largely just challenged every woman’s signature/voter status on every ballot they could across america.
That problem seems like it could solve itself…
Face eating leopard party hungers…
I would rather kill myself than vote for trump, who is a sexist, racist and fascist.
And I am with you. The boarder left is in denial that they are alienating especially young men with that behavior.
Meanwhile the right is actively recruiting young men. The name “Manosphere” for their recruitment cedes that ground to them with no resistance. “That’s just how men are, they hate women and vote for Trump because celebrities tell them to.” The right is actively selling their ideology to young men, the left isn’t.
The left has nothing for them, the American left used to be racist and sexist too, but then they expelled the dixiecrats.
Where do you think all that sexist racist scum came from? You think they wave confederate flags for no reason?
The left has TONS for men. You think men thrive under the patriarchy? Not being able to express emotions, not being able to express fraternal love, not being able to pursue “womanly” or"gay" passions. Men have rarely been more alone and less happy than they are now and left wing ideology can free them.
The left just doesn’t reach out like the right does. We could do a much better job.
The online left also doesn’t do a great job calling out sexism and other behaviours that uphold the patriarchy when it victimizes men. That’s pretty shameful and it’s hard for men to feel safe online in leftist spaces. In person I’ve never had a problem and people have been wonderful. But it’s a barrier to overcome that isn’t there on the right. The right says “you’re amazing because you’re a man, join us and regain your rightful amazing place that your deserve”. That’s a hard message when one side says you’re amazing as you are and the other, the side that prides itself of being open and accepting, is proud to tell you you’re worse than a bear and you shouldn’t feel hurt by that because it’s what you deserve.
America enforced an ideal for men that they have to be impossibly strong, stupid, brutish, and horny.
It’s only over the past 20 years that that started to break down, but large parts of the country are still infused with those values.
Everybody is acting so shocked because they lived in the nice parts of the country till now.
That’s exactly it. The right is telling them they STILL have to be impossibly during stupid brutish and horny. That’s basically what an “Alpha Male ™” is. Only the left has an escape for that toxic definition of masculinity, I’m frankly baffled at how we’re losing the fight for boys and men. I’ve never seen the left fumble so badly. But there are a lot of great men on the left working HARD to fix that, so I have hope for the future
I mean, I’m out. Doesn’t matter what I do or how I vote I’m going to be called the enemy by the left anyway. They are adamant that I am their enemy and that they are mine. So that’s how it’s gonna be.
Lol “I don’t want to be a right wing asshole, I’m only doing this because you hurt my feelings”
Dude that’s the weakest thing I’ve ever heard. Being in the left means constantly fighting and being attacked by other leftists for being the wrong kind of leftist. That’s what it takes to be on the left and you never had it, it’s what the kids call a skill issue.
Go be a right wing asshole all you want but don’t pretend you didn’t want it all along!
How would you know it’s 52%? Isn’t voting anonymous?
How do they know that men voted for trump?
Exit polls.
https://www.statista.com/chart/33408/female-male-us-voters-exit-polls/
I’m not familiar with the concept of an exit poll. I will look it up.
Why do you accept that young men voted for Trump. But when you’re told, using the same source of data, that white women did too suddenly you’re all questions?
white women voted trump, POC voted Kamala, but minority does mean less
Nice anti-masculine sentiment. No wonder they voted Trump. You guys don’t hide your disdain as well as you think you do.
Lol I wonder why…
As a guy who used to be a young man and with a lot of young men as friends, retrospectively yeah, most issues were based in insecurities. You really want to be an adult and you feel like you should be one but you don’t know how to be one. You go out and want to meet girls and you are scared of the rejection.
You can act like that is “anti-masculine” sentiment but it isn’t. It is an understanding of humans.
Just as a sidenote, based on my experience every young adult is struggling with insecurities.
This is a totally different statement.
Saying men are insecure when it’s the case across the board means it’s fair game to call you out. It sounds like fundamentally we don’t disagree though.
As a father of a daughter?
Those men need to go fuck themselves and die.
I am horrified my daughter might have to share a world with that complete trash.
Boooo. As a father of boys and girls it’s a HARD world for both right now. Completely different fights but let me tell you that my boys are suffering as much as my girls due to patriarchal expectations for their behaviours and the consequences of not complying.
The patriarchy is the problem, not boys. Don’t let your fears push you to hatred of a whole group of people that are just trying their best to be good people. It’s hard for young boys to resist the messages of the patriarchy, that was half the message in the Barbie movie. We can hate the behaviours without hating boys. We can solve the problem by tackling boys and men’s issues caused by the patriarchy and dismantle it together. We can’t dismantle the patriarchy by alienating, scapegoating, and allowing ourselves to hate so much of the population.
I never hid my disdain.
Then don’t be surprised when 50% of the population acts accordingly.