• ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    What is the ranking metric? All of these navies have vastly different doctrines, operational goals, future plans, and unique strengths and weaknesses. For example, China is a green water fleet power tasked with defending the first island chain and have only recently started branching out into blue water doctrines, Russia relies on small surface vessels to cover its submarine fleet, and America focuses on airpower based power projection fleets.

    China and America in the first island chain/Taiwan? China sweeps. China and America in the North Pacific or Indian Ocean? US sweeps. Convoy and ship harassment/denial in the North Atlantic, Med, and North Pacific? Russia has the best fleet for that. Blue water superiority of the Atlantic between Russia and the US? US fleet would dominate the Russian surface fleet.

    If it is simple ranking by number of vessels, then that is because green water fleets focus primarily in smaller, lighter, and cheaper ships such as gunboats, minesweepers, corvettes, frigates, patrol craft, and fast attack boats. Submarine and blue water fleets are much more expensive in comparison so logically there are going to be less ships overall. I.e 2-5 corvettes to a destroyer for example.

    Also I’m very sorry, but there is no way that North Korea is anywhere near the top 20 in a “Strongest Navy Worldwide” list. Most of the modern craft in the KPN are very small coastal defense vessels and ASW ships, and any larger ships are mostly old WW2-Early Cold War Soviet ships.

    • rigor@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      This is exactly a ranking of number of ships. When this is brought up the counter point is the US dominated when measured by tonnage/water displacement of its whole navy—ie: the US has the the biggest navy when you count the size of everything and the quantity as opposed to the mere number.

    • Eat_Yo_Vegetables69@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      Yeah looks like the global firepower site went with numbers over tonnage and other factors.

      The DPRK has a large fleet of patrol vessels but definitely lacking a fleet of large warships as well…

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      This is by numbers, here is more detailed date with tonnage:

      https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/largest-navies-in-the-world

      Russia + China don’t even have half of USA, though this is also slightly misleading since US have shitton of huge carriers and also much more noncombat vessels like the amphibious assault ships, mobile bases, supply ships etc they need to conduct operations around the world.

      Also there’s kinda bullfucking shit there like this estimate for 2030:

      United States - The U.S. is expected to remain the dominant global naval power in 2030, thanks to an unmatched combination of sheer tonnage and technological advancement. The U.S. Navy doesn’t just have many ships, it has many massive, cutting-edge ships. United Kingdom - While the U.K.'s total number of ships is expected to decline, the addition of two new aircraft carriers and the progressive updating of its submarine fleet should establish the U.K. as the #2 maritime power. China - The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) fleet is older, but larger in number (if not tonnage) fleet than the U.S. Navy fleet, and the PLAN has ambitious plans to keep adding more and more vessels.

      How the hell USA have newer and more modern ships than China? Their fleet is something like 3 decades old while nearly entire chinese navy is not even 2 decades old. Also China is continuing the most ambitious navy expansion program and USA don’t even have any clue how to progress with numerous scandals and failures like Zumwalt, LCS, inability to replace old subs, carries being most probably already obsolete by hypersonic missiles etc.

      About UK, just lol. Their fleet is few in numbers, have problems with equipment and weapons, carriers break routinely and are also obsolete like the US ones (also needless for anything other than imperializing defenseless nations), and “the progressive updating of its submarine fleet” apparently include superglue in reactor chambers, lol.

      • CommunistWolf@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        About UK, just lol. Their fleet is few in numbers, have problems with equipment and weapons, carriers break routinely and are also obsolete like the US ones (also needless for anything other than imperializing defenseless nations), and “the progressive updating of its submarine fleet” apparently include superglue in reactor chambers, lol.

        There’s also the small matter of the planes to put on the carriers; they go out with about 5 F35s on them at the moment, which is, what, 10%? of capacity.

      • rigor@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        It’s possible they mean in terms of tech the ships are more outdated in China, but as of recently I doubt that. China has been developing some of the most advanced ships recently, but does have less advanced submarines. That being said Russia might be/start sharing some tech with China… and these lists ignore productive capacity, the US can only provide limited vessels, China can ramp up production massively in the case of a war.

      • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        Well I sincerely doubt Russian navy is larger than USA’s. Especially in the regions like the Pacific

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          Numbers for Chinese, Russian and DPRK navies are inflated by the huge numbers of small coastal defence boats armed with various missiles. Those can theoretically endanger enemy ships, subs and planes on coastal waters so they are counted as military ships.