In 1966, after years of friction with the US over whether France should have its own independent nuclear deterrent, the French president, Charles de Gaulle, withdrew his country from Nato’s integrated command (not, however, from the alliance itself – a common misconception) and asked all US forces stationed in France to leave. In response, the US secretary of state, Dean Rusk, asked de Gaulle: “Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?”

In a single weekend, JD Vance’s direct attacks on European democracy at the Munich Security Conference and his meeting with far-right, anti-European political forces in Germany, have given de Gaulle his historic vindication.

There are some things that you avoid saying for as long as you can, for fear that just uttering the words will help bring them into being.

  • realitista@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    Everything you say is true, however, Europe is only fighting Russia here. Russia also started with a deplorable state of production and ramped up. They have been fighting with their Soviet stockpile which is now all but depleted. Europe and Ukraine together can easily outproduce Russia if they put their minds to it. In the most important area, drones, Ukraine already out produces Russia 3 to 1. Artillery is a lot less important when you produce more than a million drones per year.

    Yes there are challenges. But Europe is still the 800 pound gorilla when facing Russia. As long as they stay unified (hell they can afford to lose Hungary and Slovakia even), they will manage it. Now of course there is no guarantee for that, but they have been making their contingency plans for Trump for the last 4 years. I think they at least have a decent chance of managing this situation well.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      No, Russia didn’t start with a deplorable state of production. Russia mothballed the industry it inherited from USSR, and never dismantled it. That’s how Russia was able to ramp up production so rapidly. Russia is also one of the biggest energy and resource producers in the world which allows Russia to operate this industry cheaply. Furthermore, Russia has a high rate of population going into trades which is not the case in Europe.

      They have been fighting with their Soviet stockpile which is now all but depleted.

      That’s absolutely false. Russia has been fighting with weapons and ammunition they actively produce. I’ve already linked you sources above explaining this.

      Europe and Ukraine together can easily outproduce Russia if they put their minds to it.

      They cannot, Ukraine is unable to have any meaningful industry because Russia can strike anywhere in Ukraine with hypersonic missiles. Ukraine barely has a functioning power grid at this point and imports large amounts of energy from Europe incidentally. If Europe went into a full scale conflict with Russia then same thing would start happening to European factories and power grid.

      Furthermore, as I’ve already explained, Europe is not a country. It’s a continent of many different countries that don’t agree on much of anything. Many of these countries want to normalize relations with Russia. Hungary and Slovakia already have governments friendly towards Russia. Before long, France, Germany, Czech republic, and Romania are likely to have such governments as well. The US pulling out from project Ukraine will only accelerate this trend.

      In the most important area, drones, Ukraine already out produces Russia 3 to 1. Artillery is a lot less important when you produce more than a million drones per year.

      That’s again completely and utterly false. Russia outproduces Ukraine in drones. Even mainstream western media was reporting on this like a year ago. Not to mention the fact that drones can now be jammed, and fiberoptic drones have much shorter range. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/07/01/is-russia-overtaking-ukraine-in-drone-production/

      Given that Ukraine can’t have large scale factories because they get bombed immediately it’s not clear how anybody would think Ukraine could outproduce Russia in drones. Meanwhile, artillery is far more important than drones in modern warfare. As the article I linked above explains, Russia fires 250k artillery rounds each month which comes out to 3 million rounds a year.

      You might want to educate yourself a bit on how modern warfare actually works instead of spewing nonsense here.

      But Europe is still the 800 pound gorilla when facing Russia.

      It’s very obviously not, and it’s frankly incredible that anybody could believe that.

      I think they at least have a decent chance of managing this situation well.

      I think you’re going to be in for a huge surprise.

      • realitista@lemm.ee
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        1 day ago

        Outside of artillery (which as mentioned, is matched or outclassed by Ukraine’s drone production advantage), Russias production is not that impressive even today. Once the stockpile is gone, they will have to go to something like 10% of the current rate of use of their armed vehicles. They produce a handful of aircraft a year. We already see them sending donkeys to the front line. They are a paper tiger that Europe can take if they put their minds to it.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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          24 hours ago

          Outside of artillery (which as mentioned, is matched or outclassed by Ukraine’s drone production advantage), Russias production is not that impressive even today.

          That’s pretty weird thing to say that’s completely divorced from reality.

          Once the stockpile is gone, they will have to go to something like 10% of the current rate of use of their armed vehicles.

          Again, I’ve provided you multiple references showing this claim is false. Evidently you’re just going to continue to ignore that and regurgitate false statements.

          It’s pretty clear this conversation is pointless because you don’t actually care about the facts of the situation. You just repeat propaganda you’ve memorized uncritically. Good news is I don’t have to convince you of anything. You’ll see what reality is soon enough for yourself.

          Bye.

          • realitista@lemm.ee
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            24 hours ago

            I only saw one article which speculated about drone production. If you are interested about Russia’s production and drawdown on their stockpile, Covert Cabal produces good videos on YouTube where he uses satellite data to actually count each vehicle.