クロスポスト: https://hexbear.net/post/539800
SpaceX chief executive Elon Musk reportedly caused a geopolitical crisis last year, when Ukrainian forces—which have relied heavily on the company’s Starlink satellite communications—were on the verge of striking Russian naval vessels off the coast of Crimea with submersible drones. Concerned that the attack would provoke Russia into using nuclear weapons, Musk unilaterally opted to sever the submarines’ satellite connection, throwing a wrench in the entire assault.
The incident—shared by CNN based on an adapted excerpt from an upcoming book by Walter Isaacson—demonstrates Musk’s increasing unwillingness to lend his satellite network to offensive maneuvers waged by Ukraine. “How am I in this war?” “Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
After foiling the attack, Musk reportedly received a desperate text from a Ukrainian deputy prime minister, Mykhailo Fedorov, who asked that Musk reinstate the Starlink connection to the drones. “I just want you—the person who is changing the world through technology—to know this,” Fedorov wrote. But Musk refused to reverse course, telling Fedorov that Ukraine “is now going too far and inviting strategic defeat.”
Apparently he was worried that the assault would provoke nuclear war. Musk showing actual thought for the first time in ever.
Anyone else concerned for the Musk / NAFO fans confused as to how they’re supposed to pick a side but none of it makes sense because that would require a nuanced view? Nah, me neither.
Always exercise critical skepticism when reading “news” like this. There is no telling how much if any of it is actually true or whether it’s some kind of psyop bullshit. And i would certainly not take someone like Musk at their word as to their alleged motivation for doing what is claimed that they did.
Agreed. A Hexbear user pointed this out in the comments:
This whole situation feels like copium for the failing CO.
Like fuck Musk, of course, but at this point it’s hard to ignore that Ukraine’s having a rough time. So Liberals are going to look for anything they can to make excuses, not unlike how Neo-Nazis make excuses for Germany’s failure in WWII, by blaming the weather or pitting the blame for failure on one or two figures.
Starlink also sucks, it’s genuinely horrid internet. It’s only useful if you’re far from cell signal and you want to access social media or streaming services, and at that, only if you’re willing to accept buffering and snail-slow speeds. It’s not something a military would want to exclusively use for coordination. Ukraine’s military probably has its own internet, and its own secondary lines of communication. Blaming Starlink outages is simply illogical.
One way of reading the ‘news’ is as a giant advert for Starlink. So powerful it can tip the scales of war. Now (a) do what the imperialists tell you to do, otherwise they’ll turn their power against you and (b) don’t forget to buy the platinum subscription package for course-of-history-changing results.
“Blame the weather” it hit me like a brick realizing this is actually what these losers did 😭😭😭😭
Starlink internet is fine, in my experience. Fuck Musk tho.
They were caught using discord so honestly I don’t think we’re dealing with a real army that knows about the niche software
Seems like another wonder weapon that would’ve fixed everything. There’s been countless wonder weapons sent to Ukraine that ended up being useless.
why do they depend on starlink lol? are these “smart” drones that need to be connected to the internet? 😂
The data has to get around somehow…
The libs(?) are so thirsty for war, they’ll even throw their own arch technopriest under the bus.
I think he’s a fascist in libertarian clothing.
He’s a capitalist acting in his own self-interest and happens to hold some US conservative views, simple as that.
But he’s also quite fascist too
Fun fact: During World War II, those who aided and abetted the enemy, usually got 2 in the brain.
Unless you were a capitalist, then you got reparations for your destroyed factories in Nazi Germany
d/w they helped balance those losses through operation paperclip
This is a fantasy… both General Motors and Ford profited off the nazi war machine and, as has been mentioned: these investments were protected by the U.S. government under pressure from business interests.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm
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Maybe I’m reading this wrong but did it happen last year? I thought it happened just a few days ago???
It happened last year
Well I was watching out Elon tweets last year, he was very worried about NAFO and the nuke war which was provoked by media propagandists that Putin was going to use nukes and Russia is losing the war ASAP. He is an oligarch but at least he had sense when most of socdems had lost their minds over Russia.
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^Least fascist, most freedom espousing liberal when poked only a little.
Things will make a lot more sense if you imagine the imperialists, not ‘state institutions’ at the top of the capitalist pyramid.
Is the US officially at war with Russia?
The U.S. hasn’t been officially at war since WW2, so “officially” wouldn’t be a great standard
Absolutely. He needs to get trialled.
By who?
I have to be honest. Musk as much as he’s an absolute ass is also making the types of moves I like to see to enable a continued globalized world. He’s the kind of bourgeoisie I hope wins the struggles ahead because he’s preferable to the alternatives for a soft US empire implosion. He just keeps on doing things that I can’t help but cheer, not because they’re objectively good in a vacuum but because they’re creating the best conditions and/or navigating the conditions making the best choices for AES and the global south freeing themselves.
No, he’s just dumb. You may consider that convenient until it gets someone that you care about killed.
He’s arrogant and childish and petty which hinders him. He’s also a reactionary but his selfish pettiness so far has done some interesting things in sabotaging the evil empire.
As to getting people killed. What the fuck does that mean? You sound like a fed crowing on about the dangers of subversive thinking and commies getting people killed.
The US is grinding Ukraine’s population to grist and ironically Musk was one of the few prominent people who said that was bad, they weren’t going to win and it was pointless and dangerous to continue. All true.
I know, I know. No one must insult the nazi fascist Ukraine regime and it’s American cheered genocide of its own people for western arms manufacturer profits.
Alright Russia, good to see you here. Ukraine does not want you there. You weren’t invited. Wagner was literally started by a Nazi and your power structures literally match the definition of fascism. Your justifications for the conflict match that of the Third Reich.
Ukraine is not the Nazis in this match up.
What are other ways he has created such conditions, besides this incident?
He’s broadly anti-decoupling with China to my knowledge. Somewhat willing to say good things about China. I mean he see’s Chinese things like Ali-pay/WeChat and wants to emulate them. Being against escalation against Russia is also good actually.
He’s like Trump and I’m honestly not sure how people here are not getting that was what I was saying. I mean I’m not going to trip over myself to disown him anymore than I have already. I shouldn’t have to because there should be some critical thought given.
Do you have any evidence he is a hawk? Of the variety who would advocate using nuclear weapons or something to avoid giving up US hegemony (as many of the more silent bourgeoisie who control the US government and defense contractors would tend to be) as opposed to a self-serving but also self-defeating capitalist who can’t stop gorging himself off the profit potential of staying linked with China. I mean I hope he and others like him are like that and continue to exist. I guess as an ML I can’t help but be a bit optimistic that some of the bourgeoisie are selling us rope even in this day and age.
I mean there are degrees here. I don’t know if wandering liberals have downvoted me or what but I think what I said speaks for itself and honestly I don’t like Musk, so I’m not really going to compile a list of “why communists should think this guy is useful”, it’s just not worth my time and it was just musing. It was my hot-take. I don’t believe it to be incorrect, no one has really hit me with anything that changes my view.
Admittedly I did forget that but it doesn’t change the larger picture. Also I really doubt he instigated that incident. He’s just a loud-mouth.
Look, he’s not a friend. But he’s like Trump, says things and takes positions strangely contrary to the hawks /at times/. Besides that his fan-boys go nuts and have melt-downs over this so it’s all very amusing. If you think he’s the worst because he’s a loudmouth you’re objectively not paying attention and you are a liberal and there’s no quibbling over that because that’s not material analysis.
Come to think of it, he kind of resembles Trump in another way, he has this huge ego and interest in building a brand off his name, not directly like Trump but he does things like sell himself, get himself in Star Trek episodes, goes out of his way to get others to stroke his ego, has a craving for being seen as very smart, very capable, a genius.
I don’t get why people here are losing their minds over my saying that maybe uh he’s useful in certain ways and I enjoy him not shutting up and being a quiet bourgeoisie. If anything his talking continues to do a lot to ruin his own efforts.
He seems pro-China. This isn’t because he’s a good person but that doesn’t matter.
People will critically support Iran despite the fact they execute communists, homosexuals, and disobedient women yet I say this Musk fool has his utilities and it’s nice he’s saying this and pushing these things and people lose their damn minds as If I’m fan-girling for him instead of simply making observations that he’s taking positions that while probably born out of self-interest and his own pompous arrogance are good actually. Some bourgeoisie are liable to at times sell us large quantities of ropes not because they want us to use them but because it lets them profit.
But this thread seems like it’s been brigaded by liberals so whatever.
For what it’s worth i can understand what you’re trying to say and after giving it some thought i think i basically agree. He’s a piece of shit but he’s just stupid and egotistical enough to be detrimental for the overall capitalist-imperialist project. A “useful idiot”, if i may borrow that phrase which liberals love so much.
What a terrible excuse. Russians constantly claims they will do things, and it’s always a lie. Why the hell would musk think they’re going to retaliate with nukes? I’m sure if they were going to, they would have by now. Saying he was afraid Russia would use nukes makes him sound like a little bitch.
He asks how is he in this war? Does he not remember signing a contract with the government? I guess he didn’t read the contract, just saw the $ and considered it a donation.
i dunno man the last time someone attacked some dudes boats in dock - they ended getting nuked twice, i wouldn’t say it’s unjustifiable
That’s not remotely comparable. They are at war. Are you saying Ukraine just can’t attack Russian ships?
Using nukes is never justifiable. Anyone who even thinks of using nukes should be held far away from power and authority.
this is all i’m saying
And what exactly does that mean in relation to what we are talking about? Are you sayin any future use is justified because it was done in the past? If thats the case then I’m just gonna have to strongly disagree.
morality be damned history has a funny way of rhyming
Ok… still not justified.
This is not about justification but expectation. I do not think anyone here is trying to justify nuclear armageddon. The Japan bombs, along with numerous nuclear weaponry incidents in the past that humanity barely evaded, merely show that the patience of nuclear powers about such incidents is much, much shorter than commonly expected, and that crossing red lines said powers have long been making very explicit could reasonably turn out to have been a bad idea in hindsight
If it’s about expectations, then anyone who even thinks of using nukes first should expect their nation to not exist afterward, and those personally responsible will go down in history (if there’s still a world to record it) as the dumbest most evil pieces of shit to ever live.
Sorry but somehow I really don’t think the people handling nuclear weapons are awfully concerned about the consequences such an action will have on their street cred
I’ll tell Putin that School_Lunch@lemmy.world thinks that he and the entire Russian military command shouldn’t be in charge. I’m sure they’ll all resign within the hour.
We shouldn’t look at the world as we would like it to be, but we need to look at it as it actually is. Russia has stated that they will use nukes if they deem it necessary for the preservation of their nation. Is this a good thing? Of course not. But it being an awful thing doesn’t mean we can just wish it out of existence.
I wouldn’t even say it’s an awful thing. It’s neither good nor bad, it is what it is. I think more Westerners need to think about when Putin asked: “What good is a world without Russia?” and what that means. I assure you he is by far not the only one in Russia who thinks that way, in fact it may even be the majority opinion in Russian society and in the Russian leadership as a whole. It is also not unique to Russia, most countries with a strong sense of self-identity think the same way. Ukraine certainly does and it has repeatedly shown and pretty much said that it would have no compunctions over triggering WW3 by dragging NATO into a direct war with Russia if that means staving off their own defeat. If Russia is ever under serious threat of being destroyed as a nation, for instance through the kind of balkanization that the West dreams of achieving, they will opt to take the entire world with them. For Americans especially this should be easy to understand as many in the US would do the same. It’s the Europeans who i am much more worried about as they may be unable to grasp this concept since most of them have no such strong attachment to their own countries (myself included) and as a result will make the catastrophic mistake of pushing Russia too far.
If even one nuke is used, it would be likely that everyone would use them. I’m sure you’ve heard of MAD. Anyone who threatens to use them should be immediately removed from power. That is a principle every citizen of every nation should hold. Unfortunately russians seems not to. There are too many people who support authoritarians. Any nation that uses nukes first will likely be obliterated in response. Putin has to know that, so when Russia says they will use nukes, I don’t believe them.
I think you misunderstand me. I’m not saying that using nukes is a good thing, or that they should ever be used. I’m saying that it doesn’t matter what you or I think about it, we aren’t the ones making these decisions. So we instead should try to understand the positions of the people making these decisions instead of smugly dismissing them as “evil authoritarians.”
Anyone who greedily holds onto power is an evil authoritarian in my book, and anyone who thinks nukes are an option is much much worse. There is nothing to understand. There is no position where nukes are justified. They were used when they were first made, and luckily they haven’t been used since. As soon as they are it will give everyone else the excuse to use them too. Using even one nuke runs the risk of leading to the destruction of the world. No one willing to take that risk should be allowed power, and it should be the obligation of each nations citizens to enforce that.
Oh wow, a lib and insisting trying to understand things is a waste of time, what a shock. I thought I said this to you earlier, but it was someone else. So I’ll say it to you as well. Go away, you’re obviously not happy here and your refusal to understand things is not the strength you think it is, being proudly ignorant isn’t a good thing. So shoo, go somewhere where you can spout nonsense and be praised for it instead of bothering us.
You’re right, it’s not comparable. Japan had not even declared war on the US!
Technically it had, but the damn declaration was stuck in translation for too long.
It would be better for them if they didn’t, and it would be better for the whole world if the West didn’t help them do it. Because every action has a reaction, and Russia has escalation dominance in Ukraine. Thus the more provocative attacks that the Kiev regime undertakes the worse the consequences of the Russian proportional response will be for Ukraine. And the more the West tries to hurt Russia the worse the backlash on them will be, as we can see with the failure of the sanctions that have devastated Europe while just making Russia stronger.
The smartest thing Ukraine could have done would have been to not start this war in the first place. The second smartest thing would be to stop fighting, else it will just get more and more destroyed.
Whether or not you or i consider the use of nukes justifiable does not change the fact that many states around the world including Russia and the US have a different view on this. We need to deal with reality not with wishful fantasies or moralistic grandstanding. And in reality nuclear states faced with an existential threat will very likely use every weapon at their disposal.
And don’t think that we can push Russia just up to the nuclear threshold and then simply stop there. It doesn’t work that way. An escalation spiral has its own momentum. So far Russia has been extremely patient and restrained in terms of retaliating against the West for its participation in planning and facilitating attacks on Russia and Russian forces. But the West’s involvement in this is already at a level that Russia would be fully justified in viewing as a declaration of war against them.
Don’t be surprised and don’t cry “unprovoked attack” when Russia one day decides to respond accordingly. Again, it would be in the West’s best interests to not gamble on Russia’s patience lasting forever while we continue to escalate. Russia doesn’t need nukes to inflict significant damage on NATO and the US’s assets in and around Europe.
This arrogant and dismissive attitude toward Russia is exactly why this war is happening. Russia did not lie when it warned since 2007 to stop expanding NATO else the entire security situation in Europe would be destabilized. Russia did not lie when it warned that the horrific treatment of ethnic Russians in Ukraine since 2014 needed to stop else there would be serious consequences. People just like you were convinced that they did not need to take Russia’s red lines seriously and that the Russians were just bluffing. And yet you continue to dismiss Russia even when they say with all seriousness that their official doctrine allows for use of nuclear weapons in case of an existential threat to the Russian state and nation. The fact that Russia so far has shown incredible restraint in responding to escalations by Ukraine and its western handlers does not mean that their patience is infinite. What exactly do you gain from gambling on nuclear apocalypse?
Christ, some of y’all are dense. People don’t take Russia seriously because they’re not serious. They’re fucking clowns. Remember when they swore up and down that they weren’t getting ready to invade Ukraine when they were lining up at the border? And then when they did invade it was to clear out Nazis or Ukrainian covid labs or some such nonsense. And then they continuously got their asses handed to them so badly that they had to resort to launching missiles at crowds of innocent people trying to evacuate their homes. Russia’s “Red Lines” were bullshit because they never had a leg to stand on - and after the absolute shit show of the past couple of years, you’re saying now we should take anything they say seriously.
Nukes are the last tool of diplomatic intimidation Russia has left - and if the past is any indication, their nukes are going to be like the 30 year old bottle rockets I found in the back of the garage as a kid. They’ll be lucky if they don’t blow their own country up trying to use the things.
Fuck Russia and fuck you for acting like they have any moral ground to stand on.
Sometimes i wonder how it could happen that the West with all its historically accumulated advantages has started losing so badly on every front against Russia and China…then i read things like this and immediately everything is clear.
Exceptionalism is a hell of a drug.
