• masquenox@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    46
    ·
    11 months ago

    while fascists gleefully vote republican.

    If I was a fascist, I’d vote Dem - fascism just gets more traction with liberals in the Waffle House, and Dems are utterly ineffective at actually doing anything to stop fascism anyway. It was Trump whipping the fascists into a froth while a lib was in the Waffle House that brought antifa into the streets - not Trump actually humiliating himself on a daily basis in the Offal Office.

    Fascists just gets more from a Dem regime - the Dems are doing a fine job strengthening fascist institutions. If Pig City was being constructed under Trump, the resistance to it would be ten times stronger.

    None of this means you are wrong, of course (you’re not) - but if voting can stop fascists it simply means the political institutions aren’t ready to hand power over to them just yet. They are working on it, though.

    • Cowbee@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      35
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      Accelerationism works both ways, I suppose, but there legitimately are fascists in the republican party.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        28
        ·
        11 months ago

        but there legitimately are fascists in the republican party.

        Doesn’t matter. The actual fascists doesn’t matter. The thing to be concerned about isn’t the fascists themselves - what matters is the liberals that will hand power to the fascists if their precious status quo is threatened enough.

        The thing about fascists that nobody except leftists seem to understand is that fascists serve a very distinct purpose in the classical liberal nation-state - they don’t exist in a vacuum as some kind of “aberration”. Fascism cannot exist without threatened capitalists funding them. Fascism cannot exist without liberals handing power to them to maintain their precious “Law & Order.”

        There is no such thing as “grass-roots fascism” - it’s all coming from above.

        • Asafum@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          It makes sense, but I think the downvotes are from people feeling like this is victim blaming as opposed to recognizing what you’re actually saying.

          It’s not Johnny Democrat going to the polls that’s allowing fascists to take power, it’s Joe Manchin protecting his own wealth by “allowing” a “friendly fascist” to take power, or pass a bill, if it means stopping a Bernie Sanders from taking office or stopping a popular bill that would cost him potential profit. Unless I’m the one who’s misunderstanding lol

          • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            11 months ago

            The downvotes are from reasonable people who understand that this kind of cynicism is privileged teenager nonsense.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            13
            ·
            11 months ago

            Unless I’m the one who’s misunderstanding lol

            No, you’re not. If voting could undo fascism it wouldn’t exist. If the wants of the majority of people in the US actually counted the US would be a place we couldn’t even imagine in this reality - and so would the rest of the world.

            downvotes are from people

            I got the exact same response in 2016 as well… even leftists who should have known better hysterically accused me of “accelerationsim” for stating that a Trump presidency would energize the left - which it did (mysteriously, without any “accelerationism” on my part at all).

            I don’t blame them… people are grasping at straws. It was the same in 2016.

            • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              11
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              11 months ago

              yes, we could have preserved basic human rights for women by just voting for them directly when we had the chance, but it’s much more entertaining for me if a bunch of people suffer needlessly to achieve the same goal

              How fucking privileged can you be? This isn’t a fucking game. Grow the fuck up.

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                8
                ·
                11 months ago

                for women by just voting for them directly

                Are you talking about a certain neocolonialist prodigy of notorious mass-murderer Henry Kissinger, perhaps?

                Do tell, liberal - how many lives in the 3rd world would you sacrifice for your venal and hollow “girlboss” fake-feminism?

                • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  9
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  My farts smell better when they are uncorrupted by any semblance of nuance or pragmatism.

                  Yes, we all understand that you’ve smugly absolved yourself from the burden of real statecraft by being smarter than everyone, but I assure you that plenty of vulnerable people still think your privileged shit stinks like hell.

                  • masquenox@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    8
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    Again, liberal - how many lives in the 3rd world would you sacrifice for your venal and hollow “girlboss” fake-feminism?

        • pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          11 months ago

          Yes it does matter; millions of people will die if Trump wins a second term. Don’t lie to our face by claiming it doesn’t matter.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            11 months ago

            millions of people will die if Trump wins a second term.

            Probably. And if the US political establishment actually manages to dig out a competent fascist, many, many more than that will die or have their lives destroyed (which has never been an unusual thing in the US at all - or anywhere the US does “foreign policy”).

            Your problem isn’t Trump. There’s a lot more (and much viler) where he came from. Your problem is the political establishment that allows his existence - will they be allowing you to vote on that any time soon?

            • tygerprints@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              11 months ago

              The problem is a contingent of poorly educated small brained white trash who very incorrectly believe trump can help them out of their sorry economic conditions (in fact he actually helped make them poorer). The problem is lack of education and lack of humanity that is very evident in the responses posted on this forum.l

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                The problem is a contingent of poorly educated small brained white trash

                Oh… so you are placing the blame for the failure of your faux-democratic capitalism on white people who have the least economic power of all white people in the US?

                I wonder… if we were to look at the socio-economic background of the average alt-right supporter - what would we find, liberal?

                Your cognitive dissonance is palpable.

          • tygerprints@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            Trump has plainly stated he will destroy anyone who doesn’t cast a vote for him this time around. If that isn’t frightening, you need to check your pulse.

              • tygerprints@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                Well according to recent articles in USA Today and the local Tribune, we do have the votes now. The current polling shows Biden way ahead among the popular votes. We are entitled to everyone of them, thanks for agreeing with me on that.

        • SomeSphinx@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          “the actual fascists don’t matter” …There’s no way you just typed that in good faith.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            11 months ago

            Lol! It’s quite hysterical - the one minute I’m arguing with people who don’t believe anything in the US could possibly be fascist, the next I’m arguing with people who believe fascism can be stopped through voting.

            No - the fascists don’t matter as far as your actual vote is concerned. You can’t “establish” fascism through voting. How much power the fascists get depends completely on the political establishment regardless of how the voting goes. You’ve had four years of Biden and the fascists haven’t grown any weaker, have they?

            When you vote for a liberal you are basically voting for them because they pinky-swore that they won’t hand more and more power to the fascists (never mind them actually doing something about the fascists because they won’t) - but they don’t need your permission to do so. You have to understand that they, being political elites, will inevitably be incentivized to do so.

            There’s a good reason we call US “formal” politics a glorified “good cop/bad cop” routine.

    • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      11 months ago

      If Pig City was being constructed under Trump, the resistance to it would be ten times stronger.

      I think I once would have believed this but I do not anymore, and I wouldn’t be willing to bet the lives of all people who aren’t white, heterosexual cis-men on a resistance suddenly appearing. If anything, it seems like people are more willing to normalize, or at least look away from, atrocities than I would have ever imagined in the past.

      • Dinsmore@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        11 months ago

        Feels like for months all we heard about was kids in cages and how terrible it was (under Trump). Now nobody says a gd thing (under Biden). Seems like it’s only acceptable to fight against fascism when it’s “the other team.”

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        11 months ago

        and I wouldn’t be willing to bet the lives of all people who aren’t white, heterosexual cis-men on a resistance suddenly appearing

        You won’t get the chance to bet on it - it is simply the direction in which the US political establishment is careening. By all means, vote your conscience - hell, I’ll vote with you - but don’t be surprised when that doesn’t alter the course much… or even at all.

        If anything, it seems like people are more willing to normalize, or at least look away from, atrocities than I would have ever imagined in the past.

        Certainly - but then, again… a lot of us always have. That’s how we ended up here in the first place, isn’t it?

    • tygerprints@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      If you were intelligent and you’re not, you would already be voting Democratic. That you can’t tell who are the bad from the good guys in this scenario just speaks to how illiterate and unintelligent you right wingers truly are.

      No democrat has ever helped “strengthen” a fascist institution. It’s possible you’re just idiotic and haven’t had any education. In fact, I’d say you just proved it beyond all question.

      And frankly I’d rather have democratic fascists anyway. Whatever that looks like - I’ll take it over a repuglican one anyday.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        No democrat has ever helped “strengthen” a fascist institution.

        “Fund the police” - Joe Biden.

        • tygerprints@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          A great example of what I mean. Fund the police, not the facists. Which is a police I totally agree with. Only the dimmest of dimwits would want to see the police go unfunded.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        No democrat has ever helped “strengthen” a fascist institution.

        Biden literally had a pig for a running mate, genius - what did you think the police really is?

        I bet you can’t tell me what the first police department in the world was called or why they were created, eh?

        Like all “enlightened centrists,” you don’t even know - and don’t want to know - the history of the institutions you are so desperate to normalize. Like all “enlightened centrists,” you don’t want to see the brutal violence that upholds your preciosu status quo. It’s only when it shows up on your doorstep that you start ineffectively whining about it.

        It’s true what the leftists say - fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost. And it’s only the “coming home” part that you have a problem with.

        And frankly I’d rather have democratic fascists anyway

        Oh, I know what those look like - I grew up in Apartheid-era South Africa. They were pretty “democratic” - and their “democracy” would be quite compatible with your batshit liberal conception of it.

        The US is about as “democratic” as the USSR was “socialist” - ie, they never were and never will be. You couldn’t handle actual democracy, Clyde - your understanding of politics is too constrained to even recognize it when it happens and instead you feel threatened by it.

        So go… vote “harder.” But when (not if) the faux “democrats” you put your faith in delivers you onto the fascists do remember - somebody tried to explain to you why.

        • tygerprints@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          Your views are so inept and wrong I can’t bring myself to read them, but I’m sure they’re just as idiotic as ever. Have a nice life, loser.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            Your views are so inept and wrong

            Do tell, Clyde… what has your faux-democrats done to weaken the fascists?

            They are weaker, right?