The comments are even worse. The fact this rhetoric made it even there genuinely makes me feels terrible. Are even other transfems this liberal or is this fed work?
“I’m as left as they come” = I’m a liberal with some socdem views
You cannot vote fascism away lol. This has historically never worked. You have to actually dismantle the system that allows fascism to rise.
Also of course one of the commenters is crying whataboutism.
it’s one of those red flag (and not the good kind) phrases that immediately tells you this person’s idea of “left” is voting for democrats and calling Trump a cheeto man
‘I fully support LGBTQ+ rights and all but not when I get confronted with the slightest bit of LGBTQ+ activism’ type of beat
“I’m as left as they come”
“No, you are not” is my response.
Its like they are trying to assure themselves that they are not, in fact, right wing nuts
“I’m as left as they come. I stopped using the f slur ,like, 4 years ago.”
“I’m as left as they come”, I love how they always say that word for word with zero self awareness
I’d even vote for 98% Hitler if he promised to compromise with 100% Hitler.
They haven’t met the radlibs or maoists I see.
Anarchists bringing the term “tankie” into the mainstream for liberals to use has been a disaster for modern political discourse.
It turned against them, now anarchists get called tankies too
These feds have a template I swear. This is a fed post, they always have the exact same "(Mods delete this if it is against the rules)…I’m as left as they come…Not 100% supporting Biden is a vote 10 mega-Trumps…I’m not even American yet I care deeply about their elections and politics for some reason in the most status quo way possible…I’ve left that bad subreddit (and am implying you do the same.)
I guess it could just be yet another unoriginal lib, but LGBTQ groups tend to support socialism a lot more than the general public, so the last thing the establishment would want is for them to actually look outside of the two party system for solutions to societal problems that plague them.
Don’t know if the poster is a fed, but think the number of upvotes is fed work and some comments as well
I mean, Reddit is fed city. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was getting the NSA pump regardless of what the OP is to the establishment.
Also no idea about the Trans communities specifically but every other community on reddit has gotten worse as anybody who isn’t 1000% down with state department talking g points gave up and left.
There’s way more right wing bullshit on the front page then even a year ago. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Trans people left using it regularly are also turbolibs.
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They’re already genociding the LGBT. We can be dealt with veeeery easily without violence, since the Dems will always bow to the new normal. Just a few laws and it’s over. Sure, Trump might put more people in camps, but afaik Biden continued and expanded those programs which Trump continued and expanded and which Obama started by continuing and expanding previous programs.
Tankies tend to get really pissy about the idea of any sort of compromise
Meanwhile
Every proletarian—as a result of the conditions of the mass struggle and the acute intensification of class antagonisms he lives among—sees the difference between a compromise enforced by objective conditions (such as lack of strike funds, no outside support, starvation and exhaustion)—a compromise which in no way minimises the revolutionary devotion and readiness to carry on the struggle on the part of the workers who have agreed to such a compromise—and, on the other hand, a compromise by traitors who try to ascribe to objective causes their self-interest (strike-breakers also enter into “compromises”!), their cowardice, desire to toady to the capitalists, and readiness to yield to intimidation, sometimes to persuasion, sometimes to sops, and sometimes to flattery from the capitalists.
Naturally, there are individual cases of exceptional difficulty and complexity, when the greatest efforts are necessary for a proper assessment of the actual character of this or that “compromise”, just as there are cases of homicide when it is by no means easy to establish whether the homicide was fully justified and even necessary (as, for example, legitimate self-defence), or due to unpardonable negligence, or even to a cunningly executed perfidious plan. Of course, in politics, where it is sometimes a matter of extremely complex relations—national and international—between classes and parties, very many cases will arise that will be much more difficult than the question of a legitimate “compromise” in a strike or a treacherous “compromise” by a strike-breaker, treacherous leader, etc. It would be absurd to formulate a recipe or general rule (“No compromises!”) to suit all cases. One must use one’s own brains and be able to find one’s bearings in each particular instance.
I think Lenin would have have agreed not to vote for Biden, by the way. There’s a difference between participating in a reactionary government through a revolutionary party and participating in a reactionary government through supporting its own reactionary parties.
“When you fall into the ‘why should I vote for the slightly less evil party?’ rhetoric, fascism wins. Clear cut.” -a liberal navigating politics
“If I don’t stand still and face down the bright lights coming at me, I’d be putting myself in serious danger!” -a deer navigating traffic
It really sucks that the only way to stop fascism is to continue funding and supporting a right wing government that’s carrying out a genocide against a vulnerable minority by writing laws saying they’re subhuman.
Just had another question: what do communists think of ranked voting? I see many people hail it as the best voting system, but if you see all choices as the same I imagine you wouldn’t like it
It’s not that we don’t like it, it’s that improving the voting system would make things better only if the system is genuinely democratic, which the liberal “democratic” systems like that of the US aren’t. As long as the system is rigged to make sure only candidates that the bourgeoisie like can ever win even the best voting system in the world would hardly make things any better.
It’s also not the case that all choices are systematically the same, in different countries at different points in time voting in bourgeois elections is sometimes useful, but in the specific case of the 21st century united states it is not.
Just realised that the last part I said didnt make sense. The reason people like that is that you can vote for who you really want to vote for instead of the lesser evil without risking the greater evil winning
Anyways for the sake of intrigue, can you expand how the system is rigged? Is it just the unlimited campaign financing and legal bribes of US or is there more to it?
Well for starters there is a fee to present yourself to an election so from the get go not everyone can be a candidate, you need to have access to a certain amount of wealth.
There is also the fact that money has clearly a very important effect on the result since roughly 90% of the time the winner of an election is the candidate who spend the most on their campaign, this is the case for both the house and the senate.
There is also as you cited capital financing and legal bribes such as lobbying.
The results are also indirectly manipulated by changes on how the votes are counted, for example, if you pick the winner of the election district-by-district, the results may change depending on how you draw the frontiers of the districts, this practice is called gerrymandering. There can also be restrictions on who can vote (age restrictions or race or by removing your right to vote for life if you commit a fellony for example), the elections can be held a during a working day on purpose so that peoples who can’t take time of to go vote don’t have a say, etc…
Ha, and of course, there is no way the bourgeoisie is going to let us replace the current voting system with something that represent the peoples better so implementing ranked voting or any other voting system is but a pipe dream as long as they are in control anyway.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Pretending that a federal government run by christofascists and one run by liberals has no material difference for the lives of trans, LGBT and marginalized peoples more broadly is just silly.
You can argue that one will eventually lead to the other anyway, or that rejection of the already existing elements of liberal fascism is worth sacrificing the short term material comfort to those groups, but not even acknowledging that sacrifice is callous ignorance at best.
The liberals will bend over backwards to do everything the christofascists want them to. (Look at Roe vs Wade), there’s no reason to think Biden’s administration will do anything to stop the republicans after the election, seeing as they’ve done nothing to stop them before the election either, and let them get away with whatever they want.
Powers that the Biden administration will do nothing with are powers that a Trump administration will do evil with.
Those are the same powers that the Biden administration will stand idly by and watch as the republicans, who aren’t even in power, do that exact evil, regardless of who is in charge. One party may be doing the horrific actions, but the other party will never do anything to stop them, making them complicit.
And if you think Biden has “done nothing” you very clearly haven’t been paying attention to the evils enacted under this administration.
Evil that they’ll still do regardless even if they aren’t elected as they have throughout demonstrated they were capable and willing to do.
There is a slight (yet on a individual level- potentially immense) difference between the two, yes. Yet both have to be understood as part of the same system that makes largely empty promises, and then also very real threats of oppression in turn, as a means of coercing participation and manufacturing consent. They both actively and undeniably play roles- direct roles at that, even for the western “liberal left”- in the oppression of minorities and the broader proletariat alike, with every small difference being triumphed and marketed out as some immense change even as they collude to put migrants in cages, maintain settler-colonial deprivation and genocide, brutal wars abroad, societal stagnation and “moderation” over progress, and the prison-industrial complex and other systemic racial inequalities.
It’s the difference between the slaveowner who whips their slaves, and the one who would like to present themselves as better than that (but resorts to whipping the slaves all the same, when push comes to shove). The difference between the imperialist who commits wanton slaughter, and one who only does so after facing resistance- after which all sorts of smears and dehumanizing accusations are leveled, to attempt to justify the fact. It’s the difference between the active racist/bigot, and someone who doesn’t genuinely hold such values- but will use these bigoted values’ weight in society all the same, to exploit minorities of all sorts, in all fashions, so as to come out on top and maintain their privilege. Which is worse? Sure, there’s a minute (yet individually, possibly immense) difference- but they both maintain the same system and play their roles consistently as such- and it could be said that the only meaningful characteristic between the two is that one is a flaming hypocrite, a backstabber and a betrayer, who holds no true values- for better or worse.
And yes- there are LGBT, POC, and other marginalized liberals nowadays- but each and every time when faced with and understanding these circumstances, failing these tests of basic humanity consistently defines what it means to be liberal in modern economic sense of the word.
Personally, as someone who increasingly falls under the crosshairs of western, particularly Christofascist, political demagoguery (being trans, a POC and specifically ethnic Chinese, technically an immigrant, a dirty commie, etc)- if you ask me, to choose the “lesser evil”- particularly in these most eventful of times, where active, brutal, industrialized genocide is ongoing in Gaza, where we are on the verge of a third world war, and where the internet and globalization mean that now more than ever, we can see the impact of western imperialism worldwide, and we can understand the alternatives which are increasingly asserting themselves- if you ask me, if our comfort is to be bought with blood, I want nothing to do with it. The myth of the “lesser evil” is all but dead outside of a few still-remaining (primarily because they’re not costly in any sense to the imperialist system) cultural token issues- and our societies and livelihoods are collapsing and anyone with feet on the ground can recognize it. With all this to bear- IMO, someone who decides to stand with the “lesser evil” deserves all the evil they will almost inevitably receive- even if they’re trans, even if they’re POC, or an immigrant, etc- as someone who is all those things, that’s my view on it- intersectionality is important, but ultimately we are all still human, and our actions define who we are just the same- and there is no greater failing to be had, than to side with genocide. And all for what? For a few degrading table scraps on a metaphorical string, to be jerked away, and played with back-and-forth, while the world burns around us? Sign me out.
You seem to consider acknowledging that fewer people will suffer with one option than with the other as “standing with” that option. It’s not about poc, queer trans and LGBT liberals taking some kind of deal with the devil; marginalized peoples are far more likely to already have disengaged politically. It’s the fact that under one regime, more of societies burdens will be borne by those who least have the ability to bear them. If a system is to be resisted and revolted against, why sit back and let the system be as cruel as possible to those who least deserve it?
It’s not about poc, queer trans and LGBT liberals taking some kind of deal with the devil
What you describe after is pretty much the definition of a “deal with the devil.” All that said, deals with the devil aside, let’s just get to the meat of the argument- why should societies’ burdens be borne by anyone but those guilty of perpetuating them? And why should we- as minorities no less, as the marginalized and disenfranchised- pass the buck, metaphorically, onto even more vulnerable people on the other side of the world, in migrant camps, in the injustice system, or elsewhere? The system has to end somewhere, at some point, where people- proles, whether it be the straight, white men, or people of whatever many layers of intersectional identity and circumstance- decide to call an end to all this. All playing into this system does is divide us, destroy our moral credibility, and strengthen the system which also directly perpetuates our own suffering as well as those of others. And as minorities, it only goes without saying that if we can go about our experiences without learning empathy from it- if we try to dump the problem on someone else undeserving- who’s to say that the tables won’t turn?
why sit back and let the system be as cruel as possible to those who least deserve it?
Who deserves it least? Me, just because I’m a trans POC? Should I pass the buck on to some random Palestinians, migrants, some even more disenfranchised “other” unfortunate enough to be next in line on the chopping block? And where does that constant betrayal and abandonment of any sort of human decency end? Why must I participate, to strengthen my own oppressors?
I’m not sitting back and letting the system be as cruel as possible- I am not and will not be silent, similarly I take care of me and mine and those I can around me- and furthermore, I am hoping to either insulate myself from the ongoing and intensifying crises, or leave the west altogether in time. Short of outright rebellion (in the present circumstances- it would be a quick martyrdom) there is not much else that I feel I can do, and sure, that may be lackluster- but if nothing else, I am trying not to be part of the problem, I will not facilitate the problem, and I do not think I would want to live with myself, contributing to part of the problem.
You seem to think walking away from the systems of power weakens them. In your desperation to not be part of the problem, you refuse to be part of a solution. I can’t blame you, it’s a rather bleak situation. But I see more suffering in the world where people give up the struggle out of hopelessness than the one where people keep fighting.
Holly, you misunderstood @SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml’s point so fucking badly.
No, the point is NOT that not voting is supposed to somehow weaken the system, of course it doesn’t, we know that. And no, it has nothing to do with “giving up the struggle out of hopelessness”, the literal opposite in fact.
The point is that NO as we keep telling you all over and over again but you can’t seem to ever get, Biden WILL NOT keep the right from oppressing trans peoples nor any other minorities, not even a little bit, the fact that so many peoples are still so convinced of the contrary after a full term with Biden as president during which minorities’ rights kept being taken away just like during Trump’s term is mind boggling, I don’t know what kind of self gaslighting Biden supporter practice but it sure works well.
The idea that voting for Biden is a solution to anything at all, let alone to the right’s attack on minority rights, is an illusion, a phantasm, a fable, whatever you want to call it, it’s not real, it’s not a thing and it never was a thing. Whatever you think would happen during Trump’s presidency would either happen under Biden all the same or not happen even with Trump, plain and simple.
If you want to believe in the illusion that somehow the party that has never protected any minority from the right will decide to protect minorities from the right this time around and consider that supporting a genocide is a fair price for it you do you, but the peoples who base their politics on material reality instead of vibes won’t no matter how many time you repeat tired liberal tropes.
I wonder why these sort of “We must vote for genocide Joe to stop genocide Trump” sorts always have that exact same blind spot, doesn’t matter how many people tell them something, or what kind of format, they just refuse to accept that the two parties are not fundamentally different enough to make voting for either of them a worthwhile way to spend one’s time. Every single one of them speaks like this, in a “if voting for Biden saves even one life, it would be worth it” very lib hypothetical.
I’m guessing they behave this way because they aren’t in a position to actually do anything of substance to help people right now, and so want to find an excuse as to why supporting active harm against a different flavour of the same active harm is somehow some sort of “praxis” (that is incredibly low effort and something they can actually achieve at present.)
Liberals ignoring what we say tend to do so to protect their own egos, they don’t want to feel like “bad guys” and want to feel like they’re actively making the world a better place through their actions and beliefs, so these kind of…“vooter leftists” that have been popping up lately might have a similar thing going on, they always act like the only options are voting or nothing, so I think for them those are the only options right now, they just aren’t in a position to do anything right now, no education, no volunteering, no protesting, only voting. So telling them that voting will not help anyone and only provides passive support for the bourgeoisie democracy is translated by their brain worms into “You should do nothing and watch as people die.” which is probably why they are so hostile to the idea of not voting and act like we said something completely different to what we actually said to them.
Templates workshopped on DemocraticUnderground, no doubt. They’ve done that kind of shit for years; you can’t pay me to think this wasn’t developed by a committee of too-online liberal smuglords thinking they’d crafted a silver bullet for the werewolves they regard us as.
I’m not washing my hands in your trough of blood just to keep the fucking settlers alive. I will not die here with my name counted next to the fucking genociders. It’s a non-starter. I’d literally rather the country fell than be complicit.
Pretending that a federal government run by christofascists and one run by liberals has no material difference for the lives of trans, LGBT and marginalized peoples more broadly is just silly.
Man just shut the fuck up, I grew up underclass in a ‘left liberal’ government as a LBGT+ person and all I got was violence, poverty and no prospects. I would take growing up in modern china every single goddam day.
Man just shut the fuck up
No excuse for this sort of hostility towards another comrade, especially right off the bat.
spoiler
inb4 “they disagree with me so they’re a lib so I can be as big of an asshole as I want to them”
Im tired of people telling me I should vote for the ‘lesser evil’ when the lesser evil gave me one meal a day for most of my childhood, created an enviroment where random people would attack me on the street and robbed any prospect of me ever starting a family or owning a house.
No, there is no material difference between both sides of slavery incoperated when you’re poor and lgbt+.
They weren’t telling you to vote for the lesser evil (“You can argue that one will eventually lead to the other anyway, or that rejection of the already existing elements of liberal fascism is worth sacrificing the short term material comfort to those groups”).
And if you disagree with a comrade, give them at least one reply where you engage with them as a person instead of a dismissive “shut the fuck up” right away.
Im sorry but its a naive perpsective I can only imagine coming out of the mouth of someone who grew up in the liberal core with material advantages. Thats why the ‘no really we just need to give short term material benefits to these groups’ take is dogshit.
Tell that to the LGBT+ person living in a tent city in America. What material benefits? Have you seen the homeless in America? None of those benefits exist for them, they are already dying. All that happens is the more materially well off people can goto sleep in the gated communities while they drive past tent cities every day and get served by the poors working three jobs just to keep a shelter.
Taking these takes into a communist space is silly.
‘no really we just need to give short term material benefits to these groups’
They weren’t saying this either. How can you fly off the handle at a comrade without even reading what they’re writing? Their argument is:
Powers that the Biden administration will do nothing with are powers that a Trump administration will do evil with.
They’re saying Biden will do nothing for you, but that there is a difference between doing nothing for you and actively trying to harm you as much as possible. They are not using this to say you should vote Biden. The argument is “people see this difference so we look silly pretending there is no difference whatsoever.” And they even highlight better arguments for not voting Biden that don’t ignore that difference (“one will eventually lead to the other anyway”).
You can argue that one will eventually lead to the other anyway, or that rejection of the already existing elements of liberal fascism is worth sacrificing the short term material comfort to those groups,
no really we just need to give short term material benefits to these groups’
They weren’t saying this either.
They quite literally said that, I quoted them.
“people see this difference so we look silly pretending there is no difference whatsoever."
Accepting the framing of this issue sets us back, it agrees that actually there is a difference. Im telling you from the underclasses POV, from someone who grew up with my own countries ‘biden’ that no, things actually got worse.
You see when liberals elect leftists, they basically say ‘well sucks to be you’ to anyone who doesnt live in a left-liberal demographic. Any and all comrades on the poverty line basically get thrown to the wolfs in right-wing states; all that happens is the liberal core starts to placate the liberal left voters and demonize anyone under them; see the ‘chavs’ discourse in the UK, im not sure what the equivilant would be in America; probably those on wellfare.
Conditions get worse, income gap gets worse, liberals tell us to keep voting for the person who will throw them some scraps while ignoring everyone else; I say no more.
nothing will fundamentally change
If trying not to get legislated out of existence is liberalism then yes all transfems are this liberal. It’s incredibly upsetting to me that this person is being labeled a reactionary for promoting nuance for the trans community’s safety
A Democrat gives a gun to a Republican and the Republican points it at your trans comrade’s head. The Democrat tells you that if you don’t vote for him - a genocidal, warmongering racist indistinguishable from the Republican but for the fact that they won’t be the one pulling the trigger - the Republican will shoot your comrade. Do you give in to their blackmail? Do you allow your comrade to be used as a hostage to intimidate you into voting for the Democrat thereby signaling your approval of all of the imperialist warmongering and genocide that they are engaged in abroad as we speak?
This is not an either-or situation, no matter how much they push the psy-op to make you believe that it is. You always have a choice to not allow yourself to be blackmailed like that, to not vote for evil at all instead of merely choosing the “lesser evil”. You can help your trans comrades in a myriad other ways, protesting alongside them, showing the bourgeois state that regardless of the outcome of their joke elections people will come together and not allow individuals from marginalized groups to be victimized, joining orgs in your local area that fight for trans rights, organizing mutual aid and learning/teaching self-defense to protect vulnerable people in your community.
You don’t have to sell out queer people in the global south (who are also victims of imperialism just the same as non-queer people in the global south are) to protect queer people in the imperial core. You can reject the entire Kabuki theatre of Republicans vs Democrats, you don’t have to buy into their false dichotomy, you don’t have to continue voting for one monster to keep another one out. You can choose to be a principled anti-imperialist and socialist. You can choose real working class politics, and if you still really want to vote you can vote third party to show your disapproval for both of the bourgeois imperialist parties and their genocidal, warmongering policies.
the analogy would be more accurate if the Democrat promised to stop the Republican, wins the election, and then lets the friend get shot anyway
Yes? If my friend is going to die otherwise of course I am going to do as they say. Calling bluff and metaphorically trying to save my friend afterwards is just taking a stupid risk.
And you’re not selling out anyone by doing that. Other than keeping your conscious clearer, voting for none of them is functionally the same as voting for both. If both parties are the same, nothing you do will change what’s happening in South America, and especially not what has already happened in there.
This is not a directing the trolley to the more people track to save your friend on its way situation. This is denying someone having a heart attack in the trolley any help because that would give it legitimacy.
I’m not familiar with communist lifestyle in US, but I’d imagine participating in capitalist system for the sake of survival would be considered fair game. Why not the same for the political system?
If my friend is going to die otherwise of course I am going to do as they say.
And that’s how terrorists win.
Do you not understand that by giving in to their blackmail you are incentivizing them to continue to pull the same trick over and over again, every election cycle? Once they know it works they will do it again and again, and each time taking more and more away from workers and you will still vote for it every time because all they have to do is put up someone even worse on the other side.
Do you not understand that they are both two sides of the same coin? That both parties advance the same bourgeois ruling class interests? That a vote for one is effectively equivalent to a vote for the other?
Democrats need Republicans as a boogie man because their own policies just keep getting worse and worse, and the only way to get people to still vote for them even as Democrats continue to allow their material conditions to deteriorate further is to make sure the other side gets more and more comically evil. The only result of this is a race to the bottom. Voting for the “lesser evil” is what enables fascism.
For the historically inclined i will add that Germany went through a similar “race to the bottom” process in the 1920s on their path to Hitler, which is captured vividly by Berthold Brecht’s lyrics in Ernst Busch’s “Lied vom Klassenfeind”:
Und bald darauf hörte ich sagen, jetzt sei alles schon eingerenkt.
Wenn wir das kleinere Übel tragen, dann würd‘ uns das größere geschenkt.
Und wir schluckten den Pfaffen Brüning, damit’s nicht der Papen sei.
Und wir schluckten den Junker Papen, denn sonst war am Schleicher die Reih.
Und der Pfaffe gab es dem Junker, und der Junker gab’s dem General.
Und der Regen floss nach unten, und er floss ganz kolossal.
You can look up a translation online if you don’t speak German (i’d recommend an annotated version because the names mentioned are obscure if you’re not familiar with the politics of 1920s Germany), but the jist of it is that when you are always voting for the “lesser evil” the next choice you will have to make just gets worse and worse.
Wtf? This is ridiculous. What kind of a person sacrifices their friend just to make a point? If both parties advance the same interests and it is certain that one of them will win how are you okay with risking your friends life just so you can maintain moral superiority??
What kind of person gives their approval to genocide?
A genocider.
The genocide has already happened and will continue happen regardless of what you do. Nobody cares about your ‘approval’ of it other than you and other communists who think the same. I hate to use that phrase but this just screams virtue signalling to me. Instead of doing the thing that might help you do the thing that feels good
Why do you make voting decisions based on things you can’t affect by voting and when it comes to things you can affect by voting its only ‘direct action’?
Edit: just to clarify, I meant disapproval as in not casting or casting an invalid ballot that’ll get lost among millions of others. Not something that’ll actually get your voice heard
As a trans woman, get the fuck outta here with that logic. It disgusts me whenever I see people, of my community no less, playing that “lesser evil” game when said evil is championing the cause of genocide and pushing the world to WW3. Anyone promoting “safety” at the price of genocide and imperialism deserves every bit of evil they direct onto others coming home to roost.
What’s the winning move then? In my understanding the two party regime is too entrenched in us to change, so every move leads to the same unfavorable outcome (in your view anyways). That’s not a good mental state to do anything
Edit: Also it’s not like you’re exchanging (un)safety for genocide. This isn’t a choice between those two, it’s a choice between whether one or both will happen.
The winning move is understanding that no one in the “good cop, bad cop” political theater is your friend, that no true, permanent safety and security will be offered by that system, and figuring out how to either insulate oneself from the issues of the system, or getting the hell out- not accepting a role as part of the problem.
I agree it’s not a good mental state. But we have to work within reality. And this is the reality that everyone in the west who is a minority, who is not part of the bourgeoisie, etc. faces.
The winning move is not to play their game.
Yes, it’s not a good mental state for us. But it’s the uncomfortable truth.
What does it accomplish other than making you uncomfortable?
I will not lie to myself and say that this is fine, just because it makes me uncomfortable since that doesn’t solve anything. The fact that both parties are the same is not the end anyway, since there’s a way out. But that requires social uprisings.
Thinking outside the box for starters. You’ve been gaslight into thinking that the only valid form of political action is to participate in the very system that cause the oppression you want to get rid of and as a result can’t seem to consider anything outside of that scope even though there is so much more you can do, even though every single minority rights you have in the US was won by fighting against the system and not by participating in it like liberals like to pretend.
Look at the civil right movement, look at what Martin Lutter King jr and Malcolm X did, look at what the black panthers did, look at what the various labor movements did, look at how the LGBTQ+ community fought back against the lavender scare.
Despite what the capitalist state would like you to believe, exactly none of the rights these movements secured for you today were ever won by voting, all of them were won by fighting for them on the ground.
She literally is saying that not voting for Biden is transphobic. She is just being disingenuous. We as communists don’t see voting for the lesser evil as a good long term plan, and not as a good short term plan either. Nobody is saying you are not allowed to vote for Biden, but she’s trying to guilttrip everybody. And I’m a trans woman, and I disagree with her. She’s not speaking for me.
I understand why it wouldn’t be a good long term plan, but for the short term I don’t follow your logic. What’s the short term plan you communists think is good? Either conservatives win and oppress trans people, or biden wins and trans people live marginally safer. I assume the plan isn’t for trump to win and hopefully push more people to left, so it must be that enough people will vote for biden. But communists can’t help to increase the odds?
Also, she’s not saying not voting for biden is transphobic. She’s at best saying banning people for saying that is transphobic.
And a personal point, if you don’t vote for biden and conservatives win I can’t imagine how you wouldn’t feel guilt.
And a side note: None of this makes her a reactionary. Is this just a generic people we don’t like sub?
You’re right, for the short term I totally understand why some people want to vote for Biden, but don’t think he is marginally better than Trump. He doesn’t care for trans rights so he will not do anything to better their situation, except shallow words. Under Biden, trans rights aren’t good either, and they are still oppressed. Maybe Trump is worse but they are both bad. I don’t think that communists will feel guilty for not voting Biden.
Either conservatives win and oppress trans people, or biden wins and trans people live marginally safer.
Correction: Either conservatives win and oppress trans peoples, or biden win and let conservatives oppress trans peoples.
Reminder that Biden let the right overturn Roe v Wade and affirmative action and never did anything about it even though he has the power to, if he isn’t even willing to block the right from oppressing cis women and POC they won’t do it for trans peoples either. That’s the problem with your logic, you insist that the Democrats will keep the right from advancing their anti-minorities program when literally, there is no reason whatsoever to believe they will.
I assume the plan isn’t for trump to win and hopefully push more people to left, so it must be that enough people will vote for biden.
It isn’t either of those. The plan “plan” is to resist oppression directly instead of hoping that a pawn of the oppressing system will do it for us. Protest, strike, sabotage oppressive apparatus’ operations, create or join organization(s) to fight back, in one word: class warfare.
That’s how you secure rights for minorities, that’s how it always worked, no minority right has ever been won by voting hard enough, all were won by making the capitalist state so scared of us that they had no other choice than to give concessions.
The “plan” is to resist oppression directly instead of hoping that a pawn of the oppressing system will do it for us.
Could not have said it better myself. Putting your hopes in a bourgeois politician to protect you is always a recipe for disaster. We can only protect ourselves. As the song goes:
Il n’est pas de sauveurs suprêmes
Ni dieu, ni césar, ni tribun
Producteurs, sauvons-nous nous-mêmes!
Décrétons le salut commun!
That’s how you secure rights for minorities, that’s how it always worked, no minority right has ever been won by voting hard enough, all were won by making the capitalist state so scared of us that they had no other choice than to give concessions.
Why is this point so hard for liberals to grasp when it is so painfully obvious from even a cursory glance at history?
The plan “plan” is to resist oppression directly
Why can’t you do both?
Because we don’t want to support a literal genocide for an illusion of security and because electing Biden wont stop the right from oppressing minorities as we keep telling you.
The genocide will happen regardless of how you vote. And it’s disingenuous to imply the right will oppress minorities just the same regardless of who’s elected. Any bit of security is that much better
The genocide will happen regardless
You fuckin disgust me. Death to Amerika.
it’s disingenuous to imply the right will oppress minorities just the same regardless of who’s elected
THAT’S LITERALLY WHAT HAPPENED DURING BIDENS’ CURRENT TERM THOUGH?!!! Like, hello? Were you fucking hibernating when they overturned Roe v Wade despite the Democrats being in power and Biden did exactly nothing whatsoever about it?
For the last fucking time, electing Biden won’t protect any minority, there is 0 security to get from them.
Vote Biden sure. But Biden won’t help us anymore than he helped ciswomen. I believe we’re over 60,000 rape related pregnancies now and Biden hasn’t done anything to help.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but voting for biden involves voting for the local politicians who are ultimately in charge of whether abortion or being trans is banned or not right? (I might be wrong, is there a seperate local election in the US?) I guess if you live in an area where leftist candidates have a chance to win vote for them but otherwise that doesn’t track
You can vote down ballot every 2 years, this is separate from voting for the executive position. I live in Los Angeles, so we have a proposition system too (and downballot is frustratingly two Democrats that are Repubs, because commiefornia). Ideally communists would feature in electoral politics too, probably masquerading as dems, but in addition to unions, this shouldn’t feature as much as organizations that parallel the government, providing support to the people that the government refuses.
E: I actually vote down ballot every election because I was raised by dems. I protest the president vote, but my state always goes blue, so it votes for the dem pres anyway
Nuance is when you give your approbation to genocide on the delusional hope that the party who has always let the right do whatever they want wont let the right do whatever they want this time around.
