• @pewpew
    link
    -41 month ago

    Not all people who pollute are capitalits, in fact you may be one of them

    • @Cowbee@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      151 month ago

      Everyone pollutes, Capitalists drive the systems that pollute the most and force users to pollute.

      • 10_0
        link
        fedilink
        -31 month ago

        It would be the same under communism, the ways we make electricity doesn’t change overnight, either system can change, its about having the demand and the supply to fill it. Also ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clGyOL_UwN0 it details how the Soviets caused a lot of environmental damage, pre and post communism.)

        • @Cowbee@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          121 month ago

          Capitalism drives pollution because the cheapest path to profit is also destructive towards the environment, and legislating against the profit motive is difficult because the state serves Capitalists.

          Socialism fixes this by valuing needs and uses over profit.

          The Soviet Union failed to properly implement environmental protections because climate science wasn’t as developed and the Soviet Union was a developing country.

          • @FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            -31 month ago

            While yes, a socialist country would have other priorities but let’s also not forget that the USSR wasn’t socialist. Before Stalin it had the potential to be sometime in the future but that got sidelined at best.

            • @Cowbee@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              51 month ago

              The USSR was a Worker State, it was Socialist. It was a highly flawed Socialist State in many ways, but it was still fundamentally Socialist.

              On what grounds do you believe the USSR was not Socialist? We can certainly debate effectiveness, but I haven’t seen a genuine Marxist argument for why the USSR wasn’t Socialist.

              • @FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                -41 month ago

                Workers had no control over the means of production. Those were owned by the party which was just another form of bourgeoisie rule. A good example of that was the insane amount of nepotism in the party leading to appointment of friends and relatives with no competency who went against the wishes of the workers. Trofim Lysenko for example was appointed by Stalin and his policies forced farmers to basically kill their crops leading to mass famines in the USSR and those that didn’t were declared fascists, traitors or something along those lines.

                It’s not socialist if the workers lack any control.

                • @Cowbee@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  31 month ago

                  It was a planned economy by the workers, expressed through the party. This is not bourgeois rule, that’s vibes-based analysis. The Workers fundamentally had control, even if flawed.

                  It was corrupt, correct. That doesn’t make it Capitalist.

                  • @FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    -41 month ago

                    Planned by the party, not the workers. Workers lacked any voice in the party, it was no different than any other authoritarian rule in that aspect.

                    I grew up in the USSR, nearby farms were controlled by a kolhoos which was headed by someone important in the party, the farmers had no say in what was to be produced or to who their produce goes to, only the party decided that. The same control existed for every other industry, party gave the orders with no input from a single worker, commonly even going against workers in their orders.

                    I would love a system where workers actually controlled the means of production but the USSR was not that.

    • @Marketsupreme@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      51 month ago

      Don’t blame end-consumer offloading on me. I do my best, but Taylor Swift gets to fly her jet to run errands.