guys it’s not that hard, all we have to do is to not vote for still jein.
… there were people voting for stein?
i would hope not, but idk why else you would be running lmao
Note: Jill is literally paid to run as a spoiler, and if you look at her actual policies, lot of transphobia, ablism, and support for pseudoscience
This shouldn’t surprise anyone considering her source.
“Once noble party” - ffs.
Jill Stein is a bad actor in this election, she understands how the electoral college works and she understands she’s weakening the democratic party position. But let’s not blame shift - the Democrats could be much better on climate change then they are today and if they were better Stein’s BS wouldn’t have such an easy time attracting voters. I dislike the title posing it as “Stein may hand Trump the whitehouse again.”
The GOP is the “drill baby drill” party though.
The Green Party is not going to win. The only message that voting for Jill Stein will send to the Democratic party is they need to move more to the center to get more reliable voters. It’s already heppening. Harris doesn’t like fracking but she’s not going to ban it and she has to talk about increase US oil production to get votes from people she knows will turn up and won’t flake out and vote green or be uncommitted or whatever.
If she wins she will be more inclined to fulfill promises made to the people who actually voted for her. Sure she’ll need to represent everyone, but there’ll be far more people that voted GOP she’ll need to represent (and entice to maybe vote for her in the next election) than green party voters.
I think that Hillary Clinton showed us the opposite. If the Democratic candidate goes too close to the center, they risk losing the left, and they deserve to lose the left at that point. If the Democrats had tried to put a halfway decent strategy together about Israel, there would be zero worry about a third party. And I don’t like single issue voters, but if I had to pick a single issue, genocide would be at the top of the list.
If the Democrats conform to Iranian disinformation campaigns about Israel, how would they be any different from Republicans that conform to Russian disinformation campaigns about Ukraine?
“Genocide is a single issue” is basically “I’ve tuned out the screaming so how can you hear it?”
Back in 2004 when we bombed countries it was considered murder and bad. Bush then normalized it with “You just love 9/11, commie!”, Obama continued it, Trump expanded it, and now Biden helped to normalize it.
Voting isn’t public so how the hell does everyone keep assuming we know who voted for her at the election?
The people that didn’t vote for her didn’t vote for her.
You can’t claim she didn’t get the trump republican voters so it’s an indicator she needs to move to the left, right? Or Libertarian party?Its weird false logic based on feelings about justifying a truly tiny group of people voting green as villians. the main base of Kamalas voters should also be Democrats who shouldn’t pander and frack just cause she needed an extra 2% at the polls. We are gonna shift further right for that and more Republicans instead of going for any undecided first?
I don’t get it. Make the logic make sense.
I’m not saying people that vote green are villains. They’re just ignorant of how things work and act irrationally because of their ignorance.
Even if the argument about getting X% of votes was true, the states to campaign heavy in would be the deep blue/red states. Especially since they tend to get ignored by candidates.
Instead she sticks to the states where <30k votes could decide the election and the market is saturated with the most expensive ad costs
It’s blantantly obvious what’s she’s doing.
the states to campaign heavy in would be the deep blue/red states.
Agreed. If a third party pulls off a major change in one of these states, it’s still likely to go for it’s color regardless so the presidential outcome is not affected, but it’d force the relevant parties to examine why the third party was able to make such huge inroads and what of their own policies that they should change.
It’s blantantly obvious what’s she’s doing.
But for posterity I’ll state it; she’s spoiling for a GOP win.
Yeah, that’s the nature of the Electoral College. It sucks. Do you think the Electoral College is something Kamala Harris invented or even wants?
Hate the game, not the playa.
I think you may have replied to the wrong person?
No I think the point is that of course she campaigns in swing states cause she wants to get to 5% of the vote so she can get access to more money. But it’s the same stayes everyone is paying attention too.
Its false logic to say she’s only dangerous in those states cause they are already close and we just have to pay extra attention to them because they are the swing states.
Is coincidental pattern seeking.
Its false logic to say she’s only dangerous in those states cause they are already close and we just have to pay extra attention to them because they are the swing states.
The 5% can come from Cali alone and not effect the race tho.
And it would be cheaper because of less competition for ads, the voters there are often ignored and would more receptive, and there are way more voters who are left of the Dem.party there
If she is honestly trying to do what she says, then she is doing it in the least efficient way possible and has been for a very long time.
If what she’s really doing is trying to hand Republicans the election, then she seems to have put a lot of thought into the best possible way to do it and is focusing on that.
So take your pick:
-
She’s honest but a terrible leader and absolutely dog shit at planning.
-
She’s a liar but either her or her handlers have put a lot of thought into how to get trump elected.
Just an aside, this person thinks that the green party should just get 5% of the national population to vote for them from a single state and that it wouldn’t change anything or cause any ripples.
5% of the US population is about 18 million people.
17 million voted in the state of California in total in 2020.
Remember everyone. Basic math isn’t just a thing your teacher thought would be important for no reason. It does have use in the real world.
She would have to get over 5% in California for it to count at a federal level and there is of course the fact that it’s a wealthy Democratic party stronghold so they actually might spend hard to punish her for trying to take votes. I mean look at all the lawsuits filed to keep Green Party off ballot elsewhere.
I don’t see a situation where she is let to just campaign cause we can already see the response when she just gets her normal voters.
I don’t think she’s smart. She’s been searching for something that makes her feel important ever since she realized she hated working and saying out loud the obvious broken stuff even though she doesn’t have plans to fix it gets her attention and more money.
She got giddy that she was talked about in Russia because she thinks it’s awesome people know her…
Don’t assume malice where stupidity is an option first.Yeah she’s a sucky leader that stole the green party for herself and uses it as a piggy bank and self morality boost but she gets the people by being not the Democrats or Republicans. Do other people try to take advantage of that? Hell yeah. I bet one of her advisors probably embezzles funds to pay themselves more. Lots of people are shitty in different ways. This is hoping for an easy answer to the world being a mess. Same way people hope their is aliens secretly running things.
What?
When they talk about the 5% line, it’s the national vote, not in each state…
Just 5 percent of the national vote for the Green Party Stein/Baraka ticket can be a true game-changer for American politics. It will qualify the Green Party for recognition as an official national party, and for federal funding in the 2020 presidential race proportional to the amount of votes received — at least $8 million to $10 million
Which is why it makes no sense to focus on battleground states.
I didn’t read anything last your first sentence tho since it was built off a misunderstanding.
Do you still have other questions?
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Without 3rd party options we still wouldn’t vote for people that don’t represent us.
The only person who would represent me is myself, and I wouldn’t vote for myself because I don’t want that shitty job
Why aren’t you so noisy during primaries?
Oh that’s right, your true intentions are masked by bullshit.
You must be new around here
So you’re saying that Jill Stein, the Russian asset who is actively working to get Donald Trump elected president, represents you and your group?
They need to earn votes.
The Senate investigated that dinner and found nothing. Everything you don’t like isnt always Russian
lol, what a stupid way to say “yes, Jill Stein and her active campaign to get Donald Trump elected does support my values”
Third parties wouldn’t be a threat to their power if they weren’t shit parties.
Why don’t liberals vote for Trump and push him left after the election, since that worked out so well with Biden.
lol k
Do you actually read comments, or do you just pull your bull shit out of a hat?
Online trolls from the Kremlin-backed Internet Research Agency used social media to promote Stein’s candidacy during the 2016 campaign, according to an indictment brought by special counsel Robert Mueller against the Russian organization and 13 of its employees. The Russians’ pro-Stein efforts included paid advertisements on Facebook that explicitly encouraged Americans to vote for Stein, according to the indictment.
A summation of the report’s findings on “comprehensive anti-Hillary Clinton operations” said while the group’s assumed Twitter personas had some pro-Clinton content, “the developed Left-wing Twitter personas were still largely anti-Clinton and expressed pro-Bernie Sanders and pro-Jill Stein sentiments.”
Likewise, the report said “pro-Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein content” were among the group’s go-to themes across other platforms.
The tactics and strategies that the Kremlin directed included every major social media platform you can think of — Facebook, Instagram, Twitter — and a few you’d never suspect, including Pinterest, LinkedIn and 4Chan. The hashtags alone tell the story— #MAGA #TrumpTrain #Hillary4Prison #ZombieHillary #SickHillary. Along with anti-Clinton stories, they also pushed out messages against Trump’s primary rivals like Sen. Ted Cruz and former Gov. Jeb Bush. Once in the general election, they pumped up third-party candidates to siphon support away from Clinton with posts including, “A vote for Jill Stein is not a wasted vote.”
Not everything I don’t like is Russian. But some Russian things, I don’t like.
The Senate investigation found nothing illegal. That doesn’t mean Stein isn’t trying to help russian interests.
And Trump is in Russias pocket, and Biden and Harris are in Israels.
And trump is in Israel’s too. He’s in every pocket with a pocket book. You know he’ll give israel everything they want and then some. I wouldn’t be surprised at another Kent state over this if he gets elected.
Any third party that’s telling you to vote for them under FPTP, but isn’t heavily promoting RCV to fix the system, isn’t trying to win. They’re trying to spoil the FPTP election.
RCV is already law in a surprisingly large number of places. It may change the majority in the house in this upcoming election, because the difference in vote-counting within the two states that use it for US congressional elections might be enough to change the razor-thin outcome.
RCV is on the ballot, in one form or another, in 7 states and DC this year. Go vote. You might be able to fix the system, and move toward the future that all the people in this thread who are being vocal about Jill Stein say that they want. Remember back when marijuana was illegal? That changed. This can change too, and it would be glorious, for a lot of important goals that a lot of people claiming to support Jill Stein claim they’re supportive of. It would be practical and realistic. It would work.
Anyone in this thread who is saying Jill Stein is extremely important, but haven’t been saying anything about ranked choice voting or changing the voting system to make third parties realistic: Why? What’s your goal, why did you make that decision about your priorities?
The answer is obvious, of course. But it’s fun to ask.
@anticolonialist@lemmy.world, why?
I’ll add more @s as more people pipe up. They always do.
Register and vote, for RCV as well as for Harris. We have 25 more days.
The most important youtube video in politics:
I love CGP Grey, but he doesn’t really understand politics. Proportional representation is a terrible system and leads to party control and extremists gaining too much power. Something a spreadsheet won’t tell you.
RCV is just slightly better than FTP. Let’s go with the bests and support STAR now. If we do all RCV now, we can rage the system in the next 40 years due to people saying “but we just changed it!”
Star is flawed too, it incentivises people who are voting for the underdog to not rank any other candidate or your own ballot could spoil your preferred candidate. If all thrid party voters voted to mathmatically optimize their candidates chance, Star voting wouldn’t change anything for them. RCV is better if you’re trying to actually engage thrid parties.
Star doesn’t fix the ‘spoiler effect’ unless you decide not to give your preferred candidate the largest mathematical advantage your ballot can provide, and if you do want to ballot optimize, you should only rank one person, and then were right back to where we started.
Harris wouldn’t get my vote anymore than Trump would get yours. Fascism or fascism light is still fascism.
God, you again.
Paraphrase from Historian Kevin Kruse:
“No, l’m not voting [for the better one of the two major parties in a first past the post system] this election. But rest assured that when the Trump administration starts arresting my nonwhite neighbors and forcing them onto the trains, I’m going to have a pretty big frown on my face. That way, everyone will know it’s not my fault.”
Boy if you hate non-white people getting arrested you’re gonna have a bad time finding the person who wrote the crime bill that most often leads to that.
The point of 3rd party is that they cannot support a DNC that is just fucking cool with simply being slightly less bad than hitler as long as the other guy is literally hitler. Because since 2012 they’ve refused to adopt anything progressive. Because they’ve continually sued to stop progressives. Because they’ve used their own money against progressive democratic candidates in primaries to stop them from getting in, instead of using that money to promote the DNC. They are actively against progressives, so I don’t see the point in blaming the 0.31% of the vote for something the DNC is actively working against. We’ve gone from “we need change” in the DNC to “nothing will fundamentally change”. So I mean… yeah… what do you expect from progressives when neither of the two parties represents them.
Your comment is fascist and while I was reading it my fascist shoes became untied. I would tie them but the strings are fascist. I apologize for using so many fascist letters in my words. At least periods aren’t fascist… yet.
I love this response so much. I want it to become a copypasta
I didn’t ask whether David Doonan had published a press release on a janky web site which was mostly complaining about Democrats trying to remove Green Party members from the ballot, in this FPTP election. This also somehow finds a way to blame the lack of RCV on the Democrats, when a lot of them support it. Here’s a list:
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/endorsers/
I don’t see any Green Party people there. I have never heard Jill Stein talk about it, and I’ve heard her say a bunch of things. That’s strange to me. But regardless of that, that’s not what I asked. I also didn’t ask whether you plan to vote for Kamala Harris. My question was:
Anyone in this thread who is saying Jill Stein is extremely important, but haven’t been saying anything about ranked choice voting or changing the voting system to make third parties realistic: Why? What’s your goal, why did you make that decision about your priorities?
Do you want to answer that question? You don’t have to. You can change the subject again, if you’d like to.
Green Party and Jill Stein has been talking about RCV way before for Democrats ever started talking about it. And I’m kind of doubting that you listen to anything that anybody, says except for the dnc
And yet they aren’t running anyone in Alaska, a state that implemented it this election. Are they campaigning against the ballot initiative to remove it at least?
Edit: and yet no one has ever replied to me on this. Can they seriously not find a candidate for a party seen as the most environmentalists party in a state filled with conservationists, that the democrats only take some elections in because of their SLIGHTLY better environmental policies?
Yeah we need a party that supports RCV, not this fake 3rd party bullshit. Lemme see, which party supports RCV?
Oh the Green Party. That’s… kind of awkward for your point, isn’t it?
The green party likes it for presidential elections where RCV doesn’t really come into play at all because there aren’t three viable parties. They are just making up grievance politics because rcv would never affect them since they never run for anything but president. Democrats are educated enough to know the green party is a scam and Republicans are too ignorant to vote for anything named green.
Certainly not like the DNC which sued to keep RCV off the DC ballot, or Alexandria county VA which opted not to implement it in 2024 because it might confuse the black community?
There are a lot of people in politics who are opposing RCV, because it erodes their power. Some of them are Democrats. Sure. That wasn’t my question. My question was, why is the Green Party spending so much energy pursuing a doomed effort which can only elect Donald Trump, and such an infinitesimal amount of energy on advocating for fixing the system in a way that would let them actually get elected in the future?
It’s a strange allocation of priorities.
I did look around for things the Green Party has done to support Ranked Choice Voting. You’ve sent me the RV tag search, which has a press release from January 2024 and the one before that, from February 2023, dealing with RCV. Hooray.
I did find a substantive thing that Jill Stein herself did to support it in 2017, which actually had something to do with Maine putting it into action: https://mainegreens.org/news/in-the-news/107-jill-stein-joins-push-to-save-ranked-choice-voting-in-maine
That’s good. Why hasn’t she done anything since then? Why is always the focus on attacking the Democrats, and the focus if at all beyond that is a tepid hand-wave in the direction of RCV, when that is the solution that would lead to them being able to get elected? I didn’t look very hard, but I did look, and this was the most recent thing I was able to find since January:
Michigan 2016
I can’t post more than one image because Lemmy/Memmy makes the images fall apart into a 2 mile long scroll.
Can’t believe Johnson handed the election to Trump like that.
Even without him, Stein had it handled by herself. Why do you think she’s back? Jr, who was funded by a Repub PAC, dropped out. Then Stein re-appeared.
How is Stein having 1.1% of votes worse than Johnson having 3.6%? Stein sucks, I’ll make it clear. But how is Stein’s votes being in last place helping Trump when Johnson won more votes than her?
If every Johnson voter voted Democrat (Libertarians agree with a lot of Democratic opinions, they just don’t see it) then Clinton would have won.
No.
With what logic are you using that all those votes could just be added to Hillary? It’s not how that works. You can just say if it had been completely different it would have been completely different.
It’s like reaching into a bag and pulling 5 limes and saying if only they had been oranges you could have made orange juice.
She wants money, sure, and loves to grift off the people that think themselves superior but this is bad math and pure conspiracy at this point.
Edit: No answer just downvotes cause there isn’t a logical answer just irrational dogpiling to find a scapegoat to appease some strong anxiety. Take a breath. Regroup. Don’t start throwing shit now.
Somehow Johnson winning more voters with more money than the Green is checks notes proof the Greens are unbashedly evil. Libertarians get more money, are on every state’s ballot, but somehow are never blamed for when Democrats run bad candidates who prop up fascists and ignore swing states.
No answer just downvotes cause there isn’t a logical answer just irrational dogpiling
It’s inconceivable that a voter wouldn’t support either major candidate. All green voters become Hilary voters because Democrats and Greens are next to each other on my Ideology For Eighth Graders rubric.
All you have to do is arrest Jill Stein and put her in “friendly with Russia” jail, and Hilary wins in a 0.1% landslide
Why do you think she’s back?
Because she’s candidate who won the primary for her party. Same reason Trump is back for third time.
I can. The dude is fucking nuts.
Wouldn’t the libertarians take more votes from the Republicans than the Dems?
Hillary was a terrible candidate. She lost because of that.
I’m ashamed I fell for her scam in 2016, was in CA though so wasn’t worried my vote would directly help the orange waste of baryonic matter.
I’m not sure who she’s gonna actually end up hurting this time. I gotta imagine anyone who falls for the Jill Stein shtick is likely to fall for Trump’s too.
Jill Stein isn’t going to hand Trump anything. Only people who vote for Trump can do that.
Or people that vote for Stein instead of Harris.
Sure. But they won’t anyways. It doesn’t matter if you think Kamal a Harris is owed the votes if the person can’t vote for Jill Stein but there is no reason to think they would vote that way at all.
You can’t control other people or expect them to suddenly pick another option if they have one in mind.
I don’t get where this idea that all those votes belong to the Democratic party. They could write in or not vote or vote red or other non party… Why is it that everyone focuses in on these votes? Is it a comfort blanket? Because it seems delusional if you step back from it.
Pretty sure that they don’t count Stein votes for Trump. Only Trump votes can make Trump win.
How are we this late in the game and people STILL believe that nonsense? What the fuck are schools teaching people nowadays?
Not sure which nonsense you’re referring to.
jesus christ this thread is a fucking nightmare bro
i feel like i’ve done three pounds of ketamine just scrolling through these comments.
hate to “BURST” your bubble, but Trump is destroying america and destroying the Republican do nothing party! and Democrats are winning hands down!
Hillary handed trump the WH last time
Everything she touches she screws up with hubris - Colin Powell
Okay, maybe it’s not so black and white… But she definitely contributed.
Blue Maga setting up a punching bag as an excuse.
Green’s not even polling in measurable numbers yet here we are. Blue Maga doesn’t want to be held accountable for their pro-genocide candidate.
Stein doesn’t even get 1% in any state and yet the media props her up, but chooses to ignore Libertarian shit-for-brains, despite more money and states they have on the ballot.
Pied Piper, ignoring the rust belt, a shit candidate with shitty politics. She overwhelmingly contributed.
This gives big “RFK Jr. will steal votes from Kamala”
If Kamala loses of course it will be everyone else’s fault. Fucking race/class traitor neolib cop.
Yawn….
Typical.
Exactly. That’s why I yawned.
I blame your parents. You never had a chance little one…
Ahhh. The pure-as-a-dove civility of a far leftist when they have no argument.
Gotta love it.
OK so we are picking the new scape goat this election cycle?
She picked herself. Let’s not victimize Shill Stein here. Her lack of policy, and unwillingness to lift a finger three out of every four years really helped her solidify her role as the source of her own problems.
Thankfully, and with additional hope- she’s done and we won’t have to hear from her after November.
we won’t have to hear from her
Hopefully not even her shitty folk rock albums.
I’m not even going to look that up.
If Trump wins, it might not literally be your fault, but we’ll remember that you were okay taking the risk of another Trump term just to cast a protest vote. We’ll remember you aren’t an ally to anti-fascism.
You have the right to vote however you want to, but when you tell us that you plan to try to throw the election in Trump’s favor, we’ll be listening and we’ll believe you. And if you get what you want, we won’t forgive you.
You can write your forgiveness down on a peice of paper and fold it till its all sharp corners and jam it, for all any of us care
The dems need progressive votes to win much of anything, whether they will admit it or not, the numbers dont lie. Pushing to the right so you can get “independent” voters has never worked, but the dems try it in every election. So you should be asking if progressives will forgive you. If Harrs didnt take AIPAC bribes she’d already have the numbers to win. But she took the dirty foreign fascist bribes so here we are. Try the carrot for a change. Your stick is laughable.
Hey I didn’t say I was voting for her. I’m just pointing out the emotional animosity of finding an easy scapegoat. This is literally proving my point that it’s just an emotional answer.
You just want someone to blame.
Wow its not the youth and progressives this time, I’m stoked. Yeah um, fuck those Stein voters they are the worst. Dont they know how democracy works?
/s
They don’t. I’ve been trying to explain basic political concepts to my older cousin for 20 years and he’s been voting for Jill Stein at every turn, and then pretended to be disappointed that a republican won as a nepobaby landlord that hates paying taxes.
People who will vote for a Russian sponsored Republican spoiler are too stupid to be trusted with anything. Or they are morally bankrupt and smart enough to hide it.
If you want to vote third party but don’t like the greens, the party for socialism and liberation is running de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood!
