The Republican presidential candidate ridiculously claimed that Biden is "trying to hold" Bibi back, as the Israeli prime minister continued to ruthlessly bomb Lebanon and Gaza.

“He’s doing a good job,” Trump saidabout the Israeli leader. “Biden is trying to hold him back, just so you understand, Biden is more superior to the VP. He’s trying to hold him back, and he probably should be doing the opposite, actually. I’m glad that Netanyahu decided to do what he had to do, but it’s moving along pretty good.”

  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1324·
    28 days ago

    True. I think it’s more about whether Harris can pull in the “genocide bad” folks

    I haven’t seen her try. Have you?

    • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      166·
      28 days ago

      Thanks for proving my point.

      Not that you’ll read it, but I think this might help explain:

      https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-policy-palestine-gaza-war.html

      Perhaps Harris’ loudest statement, however, was prefaced by her absence. Shortly after getting the nod from Biden in July, Harris snubbed Netanyahu, skipping his speech to Congress. (She spoke to a Black sorority, instead.) The next day, she met privately with him—later describing their talk as “frank and productive,” words that your boss might use after a performance review goes poorly.

      The reaction to her remarks was underwhelming at the time, but the remarks themselves were extraordinary. “We cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering” of Palestinians in Gaza, “and I will not be silent,” she told reporters and cameras. “Israel has a right to defend itself—but how it does so matters.” It was as close as a sitting vice president could possibly come to reading Netanyahu for filth without creating a diplomatic crisis.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1019·
        28 days ago

        Her messaging regarding unconditional support for the genocide all centrists love is more convincing than subtle hints that slate has to speculate about.

        • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
          178·
          28 days ago

          A nuanced take as always /s

          Did you even get to the end of the article or did you just read the headline?

          Harris has very little room to maneuver, however, without losing a huge part of her base and the party machinery that are still deeply attached to Israel. There is only so much a candidate and sitting vice president can do or say to break with the position held by her staunchly Zionist president, a Democratic establishment beholden to the pro-Israel lobby and AIPAC, and a broad swath of her liberal base that strongly supports Israel and its war. If she’s serious about getting elected, she has to withhold the kind of unambiguous statement—or action—that pro-Palestine activists demand. So she’s reduced to tone of voice, oblique gestures, a message hidden between the lines.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1017·
            28 days ago

            Did you even get to the end of the article or did you just read the headline?

            I read the article. I don’t buy excuses and apologia when we’re talking about literal genocide. I also regard with earned disgust anyone who makes such excuses.

            The whole “she absolutely can’t differ from Biden in any way except for these subtle hints we speculate about” thing is garbage. She’s not the secretary of state. She’s not running everything behind the scenes like Dick Cheney, though she seems to have garnered his approval, and it speaks volumes that centrists were so goddamned happy about his endorsement. In any event, she is free to differ on foreign policy and chooses not to.

            I’m still voting for her. I’m going to be at the polls this coming Monday, which is when early voting opens here in Texas. I have every right to criticize her for supporting Netanyahu’s genocide, even if Netanyahu’s apologists want me to buy that she has shown any opposition whatsoever to the only policy centrists seriously hold.

            • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
              138·
              28 days ago

              Okay, let’s play this out. What exactly do you want her to say? Specifically. Because it’s not like as VP she can do anything about it directly. So this is just going to be a statement, right?

              Let’s say as part of that statement, she says Israel should get no more aid. That would be the crux of it, correct? And Biden then has to come out and say, that’s not happening while I’m President. Factions within the Democrats withdraw funding and support from her campaign. And the Iranians start actually drooling about being able to basically act unopposed. Hezbollah gets some shiny new missiles to kill more civilians. Centrists withdraw support from Harris and more than likely sit out the election, though a few may move over to Trump. November 6 rolls around and Trump wins, the region is even more of a shitshow than it is now, and just as important, Palestinians will still be dying. And under Trump it will get much, much worse.

              Or…she tries to thread a very small needle, gets elected, and can the come to the bargaining table as the newly sworn-in President. She still has to juggle a bunch of different interests, but as President she has the power to do more than make statements and has quite a bit of latitude when it comes to foreign policy. Harris wouldn’t have been my top choice, or even in my top 5, but I can honestly say I can’t believe she won’t make saving Palestinian lives a priority, unlike Biden. But she can’t do it as a candidate.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                69·
                28 days ago

                Okay, let’s play this out. What exactly do you want her to say?

                That she would consider conditioning weapons sales. She hasn’t even done that. There isn’t one lousy photon of daylight between her and Biden, and there isn’t a photon between him and Netanyahu.

                Centrists withdraw support from Harris and more than likely sit out the election, though a few may move over to Trump.

                You mean to tell me that “vote blue no matter who” only works one way? That it’s only meant for progressives to show unconditional support to the pro-genocide anti-worker wing of the party, but that the very instant that centrists don’t get 100% of everything they want for the first time ever, they immediately defect and become red capped trumpers?

                Or…she tries to thread a very small needle, gets elected, and can the come to the bargaining table as the newly sworn-in President.

                And announces that she has a mandate to continue Biden’s pro-genocide policies. Centrists rejoice.

                Harris wouldn’t have been my top choice, or even in my top 5

                Yeah. Netanyahu can’t run in US elections.

                • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
                  146·
                  28 days ago

                  That she would consider conditioning weapons sales. She hasn’t even done that. There isn’t one lousy photon of daylight between her and Biden, and there isn’t a photon between him and Netanyahu.

                  So I was correct in guessing what you wanted her to say? And my entire reply was about the probable outcome of that.

                  You mean to tell me that “vote blue no matter who” only works one way?

                  I was referring to centrist as those not strongly associated with either party. I despise the term “independents” as I think they are anything but. Basically the folks who see the Cheney endorsement and think “Maybe I can vote for Harris after all?” The 55 to 75 year olds who turn out in droves every election. And because of that, you need to get as many of them voting for you as possible to win.

                  And announces that she has a mandate to continue Biden’s pro-genocide policies. Centrists rejoice.

                  Obviously you have no interest in discussing this rationally. Especially considering you then implied my top choice for US president would’ve been Netanyahu.

                  I laid out what I think would happen if Harris did what you wanted. You chose not to refute any of that. Or more likely - you couldn’t.

                  So, want to try again or just throw more insults my way?

                  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                    105·
                    28 days ago

                    I applaud the effort, friend… And I think it’s good to continue having this discussion over and over and over, if only so others may see it and perhaps be swayed.

                    But… at some point in a thread, it’s just not worth the time anymore. I actually believe it’s a tactic, sort of like those scam-baiters who keep spam callers busy for as long as possible so as to prevent them from scamming others, even if just for an hour. They know how to push our buttons, and they want us to waste time and effort on a thoughtful reply knowing full well that they probably won’t even read it…

                    But again, jokes on them, because the comments aren’t for them.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    510·
                    28 days ago

                    So I was correct in guessing what you wanted her to say?

                    You were not, but being incorrect in favor of Netanyahu and his genocide is basically what you do.

                    My position was:

                    That she would consider conditioning weapons sales

                    Yours was:

                    Let’s say as part of that statement, she says Israel should get no more aid.

                    I guess the only way you can falsely declare victory is if you lie about my position. That’s fine. You and the straw version of me you’ve constructed can have fun in my absence.

                • davidagain@lemmy.world
                  73·
                  28 days ago

                  “He’s doing a good job,” Trump saidabout the Israeli leader. “Biden is trying to hold him back, just so you understand, Biden is more superior to the VP. He’s trying to hold him back, and he probably should be doing the opposite, actually. I’m glad that Netanyahu decided to do what he had to do, but it’s moving along pretty good.”

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    210·
                    28 days ago

                    I’m not sure why you’re quoting trump here. I don’t support him. Do you consider his words to be true or laudable? Do you just imagine that anyone who doesn’t support genocide must be a trumper?

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
            816·
            28 days ago

            That’s not what you are. It’s ALL you are. When you support genocide, it defines everything about you as a person.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              65·
              27 days ago

              It’s so frustrating,… Because I want Harris to win so bad for the sake of the Palestinian people (among other things), and yet, some part of me just wishes there was some way for you to see the outcome of your idiotic actions without having to kill millions of Palestinians, Lebanese, and other Arabs. Some way for you you realize just how fucking stupid it is to do anything that would help Trump win.

              Or maybe not you, but someone who actually gives a shit about those people and is considering not voting or throwing their vote away by voting third party… Because, frankly, I don’t even believe you.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                4·
                27 days ago

                For the umpteenth time, I’m voting for Harris.

                You just want everyone to shut up and pretend to be as happy as you are about genocide.

                • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  34·
                  27 days ago

                  Umpteenth time? Do I know you? Until the last 15-20 mins when I tagged your username, I had never seen you in my life before this exchange. Or maybe you remember me from one of your alt accounts and got confused?

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    2·
                    26 days ago

                    Umpteenth time?

                    Yup. Umpteenth. None of you pro-genocide centrists (and there will never be another kind of centrist) can understand that it’s possible to vote for Harris and still not absolutely love it every last time Netanyahu murders a Palestinian infant for you guys. So whenever someone says that maybe we shouldn’t be enabling the genocide all centrists dearly love, one of you unoriginal genocide supporters is like “buh whubbut trump! He’d be worse! You support trump! Russian Chinese bot!”

                    So I have to clarify over and over and over that I’m voting for Harris. Hence, umpteenth. Not like it matters. None of you have anything approaching reading comprehension. You see opposition to your precious genocide and decide without so much as a first thought that anyone who doesn’t worship Netanyahu-sama must be a trumper.

                    Do I know you?

                    No. That’s why you called me a trumpist.

                    Or maybe you remember me from one of your alt accounts and got confused?

                    I have no alt accounts. But hey, if anyone disagrees in the slightest with you, the only possible explanation is that there’s a conspiracy.