whoops no this is UC Davis in 2011. the cop pepper spraying these nonviolent student protestors filed for worker’s compensation claiming “psychiatric damage” due to having his name released and won more than $38k USD in compensation.

  • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    I’m sorry, you are right that there is oppression in the US, but to suggest that this incident is somehow equivalent to the Tiananmen Square Massacre, where people were run over with tanks, and their remains hosed down the street drains, is absolutely disgusting.

    The term “false equivalence” doesn’t even begin to describe this. The disrespect for what happened is so reprehensible that it completely invalidates any point you might be trying to make. People died in Tiananmen Square.

    • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      3·
      1 year ago

      I agree that this would be a false equivalence. But, the title is a form of persuasion. By saying “this was done by an evil villain” and then saying “no, this was done by who you thought to be the hero” the post can catch some liberals off-guard before a defense response kicks in and this could begin their path leftwards.

      • alcoholicorn [comrade/them, doe/deer]@hexbear.netEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        Note, those tanks are leaving the square.

        According to the western narrative, those tanks just spent hours gunning down unarmed protesters, then crushing their corpses into liquid.

        And then stop to argue with a single dude trying to block them from leaving.

    • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      People did die. Loyal members of the comunist crade died at the hands of liberals paid by the US government. It is a sad moment were we should remember just how evil the US really is.

    • context [fae/faer, fae/faer]@hexbear.netEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      the Tiananmen Square Massacre, where people were run over with tanks, and their remains hosed down the street drains

      sure i’ll read your source

      According to The Independent, a secret British cable from the time alleged

      which leads to

      Written on 5 June 1989 by Sir Alan Donald, the then-British ambassador to China… The ambassador said his account of the massacre of the night of 3-4 June was based on information from a source who had spoken to a “good friend” in China’s State Council

      so the evidence for this claim (“people were run over with tanks, and their remains hosed down the street drains”) is literally just someone said that someone else said hearsay passed through a game of telephone.

      literally incredible.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        And the evidence that this didn’t happen, in addition to the accounts of western reporters physically present in the square who said no one died and there wasn’t much violence in the square, is the like thousands of people who were students in the square at the time and don’t understand why Americans are so obsessive about it.

      • very_poggers_gay [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        so the evidence for this claim (“people were run over with tanks, and their remains hosed down the street drains”) is literally just someone said that someone else said hearsay passed through a game of telephone.

        I went down an internet rabbit hole the other night trying to find the true source of the g*re images most commonly attributed to events in Tiananmen Square. I made like no progress after an hour, but one thread that stuck out to me was on the subreddit /r/MorbidReality, where a mod said the images were proven true by a reliable source, but their source was just a link to the search results from typing “Tiananmen Square” into gettyimages lol smuglord Like not even a specific image, just the landing page for searching a keyword on a stock image site…

        If the proof of burden is on those alleging a massacre of (tens of) thousands of civilians, you would think they would do more than share like a small handful of images, most of which come with no easily accessible or verifiable context/explanation. it’s so weird.

        edit cause the thread is still new-ish: if a user can shed light on the original source(s) of the images I’m describing can you please share so i can find intellectual closure on them?

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        Although the uprising is still taboo in China, everyone who was there on the square remembers. At the end of Beijing Coma, the protagonist Dai Wei recalls returning to the place where, a few hours before, his friend had been mown down by a tank. He remembers seeing her flattened corpse in the distance and noticing that: “As if refusing to be crushed, the flesh and bones had risen a fraction from the tarmac.”

        https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/may/30/ma-jian-tiananmen-square-remembered

      • Microw@lemm.eeEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        As long as the Chinese government censors the topic, it’s hard to know what exactly happened and what didnt. We are left with political statements and third-hand “knowledge”. Which isnt ideal.

        • context [fae/faer, fae/faer]@hexbear.netEnglish
          2·
          1 year ago

          i don’t see that as a reason to spread unfounded rumors of outlandish atrocities that are flatly contradicted by the evidence available. doing so is also not ideal, in my opinion.

          • Microw@lemm.eeEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            Definitely. I dont even know where these rumours originate from, but I’ve heard them often enough online and a lot of people seem to believe them although even western-based encyclopedia etc clearly state the opposite.

            • context [fae/faer, fae/faer]@hexbear.netEnglish
              2·
              1 year ago

              it originates in western “news” sources such as

              https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/tiananmen-square-massacre-death-toll-secret-cable-british-ambassador-1989-alan-donald-a8126461.html

              that repeat old rumors and heavily imply they’re a more reliable account than all the other evidence we have, or

              https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/may/30/ma-jian-tiananmen-square-remembered

              that present an actual work of fiction and imply that it’s an eyewitness statement, and which the person i originally replied to tried to use as evidence.

              i think a more interesting question is why do people fall for it? are the journalists doing this intentionally or are they essentially also part of the audience, eagerly seeking out spurious evidence of outlandish atrocities in order to protect themselves from having to confront their own cognitive dissonance?

              The actual content of the utterance as it spills out is no more complex or nuanced than “China Bad,” and the elementary mistakes people make when they write out statements of “solidarity” make that much clear. This is not a complaint that these people have not studied China enough — there’s no reason to expect them to study China, and retrospectively I think to some extent it was a mistake to personally have spent so much time trying to teach them. It’s instead an acknowledgment that they are eagerly wielding the accusation like a club, that they are in reality unconcerned with its truth-content, because it serves a social purpose.

              What is this social purpose? Westerners want to believe that other places are worse off, exactly how Americans and Canadians perennially flatter themselves by attacking each others’ decaying health-care systems, or how a divorcee might fantasize that their ex-lover’s blooming love-life is secretly miserable. This kind of “crab mentality” is actually a sophisticated coping mechanism suitable for an environment in which no other course of action seems viable. Cognitive dissonance, the kind that eventually spurs one into becoming intolerant of the status quo and into action, is initially unpleasant and scary for everybody. In this way, we can begin to understand the benefit that “victims” of propaganda derive from carelessly “spreading awareness.” Their efforts feed an ambient propaganda haze of controversy and scandal and wariness that suffocates any painful optimism (or jealousy) and ensuing sense of duty one might otherwise feel from a casual glance at the amazing things happening elsewhere. People aren’t “falling” for atrocity propaganda; they’re eagerly seeking it out, like a soothing balm.

              https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

    • emizeko [they/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      people were run over with tanks, and their remains hosed down the street drains

      no they weren’t. about 300 people died in clashes outside the square, more than half of which were PLA and police.

      The Myth of Tiananmen and the price of a passive press | Columbia Journalism Review

      The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie. | Mango Press

      https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist

        • emizeko [they/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          0·
          1 year ago

          responding to the Columbia Journalism Review article (by the WaPo’s Beijing bureau chief who was in the square) with an unsourced tone poem inspired by Jorjor Well, you don’t look like a shit-eating clown at all

          The actual content of the utterance as it spills out is no more complex or nuanced than “China Bad,” and the elementary mistakes people make when they write out statements of “solidarity” make that much clear. This is not a complaint that these people have not studied China enough — there’s no reason to expect them to study China, and retrospectively I think to some extent it was a mistake to personally have spent so much time trying to teach them. It’s instead an acknowledgment that they are eagerly wielding the accusation like a club, that they are in reality unconcerned with its truth-content, because it serves a social purpose.

          What is this social purpose? Westerners want to believe that other places are worse off, exactly how Americans and Canadians perennially flatter themselves by attacking each others’ decaying health-care systems, or how a divorcee might fantasize that their ex-lover’s blooming love-life is secretly miserable. This kind of “crab mentality” is actually a sophisticated coping mechanism suitable for an environment in which no other course of action seems viable. Cognitive dissonance, the kind that eventually spurs one into becoming intolerant of the status quo and into action, is initially unpleasant and scary for everybody. In this way, we can begin to understand the benefit that “victims” of propaganda derive from carelessly “spreading awareness.” Their efforts feed an ambient propaganda haze of controversy and scandal and wariness that suffocates any painful optimism (or jealousy) and ensuing sense of duty one might otherwise feel from a casual glance at the amazing things happening elsewhere. People aren’t “falling” for atrocity propaganda; they’re eagerly seeking it out, like a soothing balm.

          https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

          • context [fae/faer, fae/faer]@hexbear.netEnglish
            1·
            1 year ago

            People aren’t “falling” for atrocity propaganda; they’re eagerly seeking it out, like a soothing balm.

            i feel like this essay crystalized a lot of what i was trying to figure out at the time when i first read it. completely changed the way i think about brainwashing and propaganda. i think you might’ve been the one that posted it then, too.