“I can fix them…” ~Common thought in an abusive relationship
It’s not going to work, at best they see themselves as a “missionary” whose purpose is to convert us from our “ways” and they’re not going to allow themselves to be converted.
Conservatives do change. Exposure is key. We’re where we are at because the rich have isolated us in echo-chambers. Speaking as a former conservative whose entire family across 3 generations shifted to the left. I caution your thinking they’re a lost cause.
It’s less about an abusive relationship and getting them therapy.
Some can and do, increasingly we’re in an age where conservativism is a dogma akin to a religion (and often entwined with it, of course) and that won’t change. I don’t think we need to shun all conservatives but we need to have a low tolerance for them if they don’t show that inclination. Being conciliatory to these people, by and large, is what has gotten us to this point
They are not conservatives because they haven’t “heard the good word”, to borrow a phrase. Decades of pop culture and daily life have delivered the message that you should be a decent person, accept differences, treat others with the respect and dignity, and help those in need. They grew up exposed to those messages in movies, tv, comic books, and from their teachers, families, and mentors. They chose to disregard or actively oppose those messages. And they choose to keep doing it every day. They are just broken people. They are disgusted by those notions. They want to rid those messages from media and public discourse altogether. That’s what all the anti-woke shit is. A rejection of decency, acceptance, and the desire to fix injustices. I don’t have patience or the time in the day to read their bad faith self-righteous bullshit opinions that are both wrong on the face of it, and usually divorced from reality entirely. Fuck em.
They are not conservatives because they haven’t “heard the good word”, to borrow a phrase
In many ways I agree, but it also always depends on where they are in their journey and how much curiosity they have left. At a minimum their communities serve as a communication test bed. For example, I like to watch some flat earth de-bunkers on YouTube. Nothing they say is new to me, but its good to see how a better worded person breaks the idea down. Its like the Ben Shapiro “sell your house” meme; it sounds right for the first 10s. Sure I would sell my house and leave. Even when you know that is wrong it might not be clear how to break down the idea or what the fallacy being used is. You are right that the argumentative bad faith takers are not going to change their mind, but they are irrelevant. There will be lurkers who are curious about truth who may be deconstructing; that is who I believe the audience is around this.
Once we convert all the conservative morons, I forsee a utopian socialist society where everyone is without gender, without rhetoric, without hate, food and shelter is free for all, money is no longer a pursuit, scientific progress for the good of all life is the only goal, oh and everyone wears pajamas and long-legged patterned socks (Unix socks): so basically a Star Trek society.
Haha. For a few, honestly yeah. But most, probably not. But I think it’s important to have that hand reached out for those who finally begin to question the ocean of misinformation they’ve been swimming in for decades. Others are just fascist.
Free and welcoming are two extremely different things. I want conservatives to be free to come to Lemmy, I do not want conservatives to be welcome to come to Lemmy.
There is a social contract, and those who break the social contract are not protected by its rules. Fascists don’t treat people with respect and deserve none in kind. Because respect is a two-way street.
If a Nazi sits down at a table and nobody objects, you have a table full of Nazis.
I believe in freedom of speech from the government. I do not believe in freedom of opinion. Some opinions are bad, and people should be made to feel bad for having them.
Well, yes, in that it’s an inherent part of the fediverse. Instances can curate what they host, but even if .world and .ee removed their communities, they’d just move onto the next instance until they find one that will tolerate them.
Does…does it have to be?
I kinda want them here so they can be exposed to leftist ideas and become thigh-high wearing, Linux using furries.
But that’s probably just me huffing hopium
“I can fix them…” ~Common thought in an abusive relationship
It’s not going to work, at best they see themselves as a “missionary” whose purpose is to convert us from our “ways” and they’re not going to allow themselves to be converted.
Conservatives do change. Exposure is key. We’re where we are at because the rich have isolated us in echo-chambers. Speaking as a former conservative whose entire family across 3 generations shifted to the left. I caution your thinking they’re a lost cause.
It’s less about an abusive relationship and getting them therapy.
Some can and do, increasingly we’re in an age where conservativism is a dogma akin to a religion (and often entwined with it, of course) and that won’t change. I don’t think we need to shun all conservatives but we need to have a low tolerance for them if they don’t show that inclination. Being conciliatory to these people, by and large, is what has gotten us to this point
They are not conservatives because they haven’t “heard the good word”, to borrow a phrase. Decades of pop culture and daily life have delivered the message that you should be a decent person, accept differences, treat others with the respect and dignity, and help those in need. They grew up exposed to those messages in movies, tv, comic books, and from their teachers, families, and mentors. They chose to disregard or actively oppose those messages. And they choose to keep doing it every day. They are just broken people. They are disgusted by those notions. They want to rid those messages from media and public discourse altogether. That’s what all the anti-woke shit is. A rejection of decency, acceptance, and the desire to fix injustices. I don’t have patience or the time in the day to read their bad faith self-righteous bullshit opinions that are both wrong on the face of it, and usually divorced from reality entirely. Fuck em.
In many ways I agree, but it also always depends on where they are in their journey and how much curiosity they have left. At a minimum their communities serve as a communication test bed. For example, I like to watch some flat earth de-bunkers on YouTube. Nothing they say is new to me, but its good to see how a better worded person breaks the idea down. Its like the Ben Shapiro “sell your house” meme; it sounds right for the first 10s. Sure I would sell my house and leave. Even when you know that is wrong it might not be clear how to break down the idea or what the fallacy being used is. You are right that the argumentative bad faith takers are not going to change their mind, but they are irrelevant. There will be lurkers who are curious about truth who may be deconstructing; that is who I believe the audience is around this.
Maybe someone should create a conservative@lemmy.ml for that.
This is the way.
Once we convert all the conservative morons, I forsee a utopian socialist society where everyone is without gender, without rhetoric, without hate, food and shelter is free for all, money is no longer a pursuit, scientific progress for the good of all life is the only goal, oh and everyone wears pajamas and long-legged patterned socks (Unix socks): so basically a Star Trek society.
Dem socks go from foot to pip.
Careful I been banned for saying stuff like this.
No you haven’t. You were banned for being a giant troll.
Better to have their bs called out with sources I suppose
Surely evidence will sway them. They probably just haven’t ever encountered it before!
it’s often really tough to ‘logic’ someone out of a position they ‘emotion-ed’ their way into.
Haha. For a few, honestly yeah. But most, probably not. But I think it’s important to have that hand reached out for those who finally begin to question the ocean of misinformation they’ve been swimming in for decades. Others are just fascist.
Depends. Do you believe in freedom of speech and freedom of opinion? Do you want the Fediverse to be an open, decentralized protocol?
Free and welcoming are two extremely different things. I want conservatives to be free to come to Lemmy, I do not want conservatives to be welcome to come to Lemmy.
fascists and their sympathizers (also fascists) should not feel comfortable in polite company. I am saying this very diplomatically.
There is a social contract, and those who break the social contract are not protected by its rules. Fascists don’t treat people with respect and deserve none in kind. Because respect is a two-way street.
If a Nazi sits down at a table and nobody objects, you have a table full of Nazis.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I believe in freedom of speech from the government. I do not believe in freedom of opinion. Some opinions are bad, and people should be made to feel bad for having them.
You can block them (:
Oh, I do. No worries
It’s like a zoo exhibit
Well, yes, in that it’s an inherent part of the fediverse. Instances can curate what they host, but even if .world and .ee removed their communities, they’d just move onto the next instance until they find one that will tolerate them.
You can block communities, though, luckily.