Saw someone talking about moving that reminded me to ask this. I really want to stay in the U.S. to build socialism but sometimes I fear it is past the event horizon, that things will only get more gruesome, and I want my loved ones to live.
I have not the slightest clue where I would move to. Obviously the one we all think about sometimes is China, but I know next to nothing about the language, culture, history, values etc. and don’t know how I would adjust. It also seems it would be difficult as someone with no education or marketable job skills in respected fields.
Sometimes I think about places like Cuba because it is much more familiar to me culturally, linguistically etc. but then it seems an area like that is going to get a bad hand dealt to it with climate change.
Western countries would be the most familiar, and I do think perhaps they have a greater capacity for positive change than the U.S., but this also seems like it would be moving somewhere just 5-10 years behind collapse of America. Who’s to say which of these societies will jump ship to the new world order, if any?
Sometimes I also fear people across the world slowly (and understandably) becoming vehemently anti-USian, whether the US empire dies or clings on. Many older generations across the world seem to still think very fondly of Americans and our country, but I do not think the younger generations seem as affected by the global pro-American propaganda. Perhaps this is American cynicism to think like this, but perhaps it is not too crazy to imagine an era of people hating Americans and resenting American refugees, even if we try to play the “But I hated America too!” card.
Regardless, obviously being a refugee sucks regardless if one leaves “ahead of the curve” or not. It’s not supposed to be fun to feel coerced into leaving your home to escape doom, as many a country has experienced under American brutality.
It also seems kind of impossible because moving is so expensive, although I understand that if the situation becomes truly dire many Middle Easterners and Latin Americans in the last half century have managed to make grand treks with little to no possessions…although of course, many then end up in terrible situations.
What about you all? What are your situations, considerations, predictions, and interest regarding this topic?
Literally every day of my life. My biggest fear right now is dying in or getting martyred in a country full of the same kinds of crackers that would’ve strung me up in it two hundred years ago. Problem is one, I’m physically disabled and have a handful of comorbid mental disorders, and two, my skillset’s kind of particular with the technology; which means pretty much the only places I could find work are fuckin FIVE-EYES nations.
I don’t want to die here. The longer I am here, the higher the chance gets that I go out by hashtag-- and yet, everywhere I look, they either don’t accept disabled emigrés, or have an exorbitant liquid floor to emigration that I’m not going to hit til I’m at least 50.
I hope to move to cuba.
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We have almost the same culture .
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We Speak the same language with the same dialect but different accent .
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In Cuba I will have the opportunity to work because in my beloved island there is no place to find a work is very difficult to find one and things are not going very well in the island at the moment .
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I will have the opportunity to become part of the Partido Comunista de Cuba .
Same here
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I’m in a similar boat where I’d like to leave but don’t know where to go. I want to be a part of some communist country and actually have work that made things better for society but my job/ work experience isn’t really something that makes me unique enough to be of value to another country. Like i feel they would be like “we can train out own people to do this why should we even consider letting you in.”
Really agreeing with that, I wish I had the dedication and capacity to work forward to be a dedicated Communist but I’m unfortunately not and I’ve been growing tired of the horseshit going on in the United States. At times I feel like moving to South Africa which is technically my second home country and ethnically apart of but like what you’ve said about wanting to be apart of a Communist country, I honestly wish I could immigrate to China and adapt there but I’m ill-equipped as expected.
I’ve thought about it but I won’t leave. No matter how bad it gets. This is my home; I was born here and I’ve lived here my entire life. My roots are here. My family is here. My dad is buried here. I won’t abandon them.
A great many of my better educated and professionally qualified friends have already jumped ship. The early leavers took off out of a cosmopolitan conception of what it means to be successful; that it was socially respectable to be a globetrotter; a citizen of the world. The latecomers who felt the call of cosmopolitan life but still struggled to “cut the cord” are now finally taking the plunge, citing the decline of their country as the main reason why. “It’s the smart thing to do”, they say.
And that may be so. But that is an individualist’s calculus. If you apply that same logic on a social scale, every professional in my country would simply up sticks and leave. What then would become of the millions of people who don’t share their privileged positions in society? They will be left in an anaemic country, with their throats in the ever tightening grip of the capitalist class. In time, this perspective will reduce my country to a dead zone.
So you see, there is no choice but to stay, organise and fight for the future. Fight for the masses who cannot yet fight for themselves. That is the only way forward.
❤️
Yes. I’m considering Vietnam since my country is a shithole rn.
If you’ve made up your mind to run away then Vietnam is the answer tbh. I have a lot of friends who emigrated to teach English and have built very nice lives there. Besides some minor complaints about corruption in the police (and unfortunate and disappointing complaints about the lockdown policy of the Vietnamese government) my friends love it there; cost of living is an order of magnitude cheaper than life in the west and the people are friendly and accommodating. You can have a very happy night out on as little as £5 there.
I will try to stay with Hawaii as long as possible. It has by far the most potential for revolution.
How is the cost of living in Hawaii? Is it even possible to afford a property or rental because of the insane tourism industry? Is there any sort of job market? How about buying things like like food, basic necessities, and water, all of which probably has to be imported?
prices in hawaii are absolutely atrocious and will continue to get worse. 95% at least of our food is imported from the outside. Our energy as well. Landlords have taken over almost the whole island. We have a huge homeless population while mansions are stacked all over the hills.
I love Italy as a country, our culture and story is amazing, we have the largest number of unesco sites in the world and I live in Rome, a city that I don’t need to tell u, has a big and interesting history.
but the standard of living peaked in the 60s, we are experiencing a massive brain drain, 10% of Italian do not live in Italy (I’m talking about real Italians, not Americans choosing their daily nationality) the living conditions, albeit 1rst world, have crushed since the welfare state died in the 90s, the average salary here is only going down.
(our national average salary is 1500€ yet I know only one person making that much, the majority of the younger generations are making about 700-1000€ a month in good circumstances, and rent alone in a big city like Rome is 700€ for a 1br)
The only positive of this is, that even if a lot of people expecially after the 2016 boom in popularity of the right, are becoming fascists, a lot of expecially younger people are being radicalised to the left. Bwe aren’t even close to a revolution. (we are still leagues above richer countries like the US just by virtue of being imoerialized by them [because yes, first world countries can be imperialized too!] but still, all of the Italian socialists, communists and anarchists, that once were a force to be reckoned with (before gladio they nearly won the election, with almost half the votes) now could barely fill a medium sized city.
Every young person, if they aren’t extremely privileged, has at least one time thought of emigrating and many did. Some returned but many didn’t, the diaspora took away the best of us, Im conflicted on the idea of emigrating, on one hand
I will not contribute to the revolution over here.
But on the other
Fascism is returning, I am part of many minorities that are constantly being vexxed and killed, I can’t stand it anymore and if the situation keeps getting worse, I will flee to Spain or even better an AES or an AES in becoming.
I hope to move to China or any AES.
hey, sidebar. I have an opportunity to visit Italy next year. I’ve never been before. Any recommendations? I know all the tourist-y places, but I’m more interested in checking out things that might be historically interesting to communists and anti-fascists. I thought about trying to check out Gramsci’s home for example.
This is in to you in response to Frippa’s response, but I didn’t want to reply to Frippa and appear to be telling them how to navigate Rome! It’s not quite an answer to what you asked, but you could avoid the mistakes I made on a brief visit, so…
I found people in Rome to be very friendly. I was a bit surprised considering it’s size. But almost everyone I met there were very happy to encourage my Italian. If you learn a few words, they will be well received.
Carefully look at the map before arriving and try to get a clear picture of the city. It’s easy to get lost – or even to take the long way round – and if a tourist only has a limited time, it wants to be spent on fun things.
IIRC Rome is still divided into districts. So work out what you can see in each district, then plan a rough route, and work out which district the locals eat at (I think it’s Trastevere in the south curve of the Tiber – check with Frippa!) because this is where you want to go for evening food.
Don’t eat near the Trevi Fountain! The prices seem reasonable per 100g, but they’ll give you a kilo and call it a normal portion! And if you ask for a large beer, you’ll get a 2l stein rather than a 500ml glass. So ask for the size in millilitres! (How did I find out? I visited the fountain, then walked for about four hours, seeing other stuff, etc, thinking I’d got far from the touristy bits, but actually I’d walked in circles, then in more circles and more circles, and ended up in a restaurant that couldn’t have been closer to the fountain. If only I had looked to my right before entering the restaurant. What a plonker. The joys of travelling before having GPS in your pocket.)
The Rome card is a waste of money unless you want to see the big sights like the Colosseum and the Via Appia (is that the right name?). You get the first two museum visits for free. But most museums are a couple of euros. It’s only a bargain for the big sights as these cost tens of euros. But as soon as I saw the queues, I noped out and saw the smaller places instead. And although it includes all public transport within the city, the public transport was (a) not too expensive and (b) hard to work out, so I just walked everywhere. Plus, the airport is outside the city limits, so the card doesn’t cover that train, and that’s the expensive one. This was years ago, though. You might want to double check what’s included.
Maybe the Roman authorities have caught up with the advanced nature of Eastern European cities who offer ‘city cards’ that are well worth it – but then, they have Soviets to thank for actually installing infrastructure like trams and trains.
If you do get a train to the airport, be careful because there are two. A fast one and a slow one. Due to my obstinance and a terrible but fortuitous translation error, I got the fast train. If my Italian had been better and I had I caught the slow train, I’d have missed my flight.
You’ll see zebra crossings in Rome. Don’t expect cars to stop. At all. You just walk on them and the cars know to drive around you. Wait for a crowd and let them be your buffer lol.
Also, you probably heard anyway, but you can drink the water in the public fountains. I think they have a label that says ‘potabile’ (potable). I got very thirsty before I trusted drinking water from public fountains, but then I realised it’s good. So take a bottle to fill up. It gets bloody hot in the summer, if that’s when you go.
You’ll see zebra crossings in Rome. Don’t expect cars to stop. At all. You just walk on them and the cars know to drive around you. Wait for a crowd and let them be your buffer lol.
100% this
Also, you probably heard anyway, but you can drink the water in the public fountains. I think they have a label that says ‘potabile’ (potable). I got very thirsty before I trusted drinking water from public fountains, but then I realised it’s good.
All the water is drinkable by default, when there’s a “non potabile” sign it’s better not to drink that water, also ye we have a lot of public fountains
route, and work out which district the locals eat at (I think it’s Trastevere in the south curve of the Tiber – check with Frippa!)
That’s a cool district, every non-tourist district has restaurants (and we have a lot of them !) most are Italian and roman cuisine (stuff like carbonara etc) But there’s also other people’s cuisines too, Eritrean is really cool
the public transport was (a) not too expensive and (b) hard to work out, so I just walked everywhere.
Again, 100% this
gets bloody hot in the summer, if that’s when you go.
Yeeeeeeeees, everyone that can affords it excapes Rome in August
I am from Rome so I can suggest:
Via tasso, it was the HQ of the nazi SS during the brief occupation of Italy, they did some sick stuff down there, you can look it up online.
Fosse ardeatine, when the Italian partisan resistance put a bomb that killed a nazi SS company, the nazis took 10 men for every man the partisans had killed and murdered them inside of the fosse ardeatine, my grand grand father,( who was in the royal army, that then kinda disbanded in most of Italy after the armistice, on the 8th of setmeber 1943) knew a guy that died there.
The a-Catholic cimitery of Rome, if you want to put a red flower on Gramsci’s grave
Edit: also you know the drill, avoid tourist places and only go in local restaurants, the food is cheaper and better, if you know a bit of Italian it’s best but hey, the magics of cultural imperialism, we speak English too
Wish I had this guide on my visit!
Ideally, I won’t have to, but if I did it’d probably be one of the LatAm socialist countries, assuming I’d even be admitted in the first place. If I was a good person and didn’t have massive social anxiety I’d stay here and desperately try to organize, but I have very little hope for most countries in the imperial core in the upcoming decades
I would leave for sure but all my family that I talk to is in the US, and Id have to pay a decent amount to renounce my citizenship before the immense cost of moving to a new country or even a new continent
I’m not leaving. There is work to be done. Those who were born into it, those who are involved, those who haphazardly fall into the work cannot leave it without leaving themselves behind.
I want to get the fuck out of the USA. I might be able to hang on to sanity here because I was exposed to the right influences, but honestly the idea of having kids here is frightening. It really forced me to reckon with all the times I’ve hated the way it is here and how it psychologically weighed me down until I stopped noticing it.
Right now most of America isn’t a positive or productive place for children. It’s a high intensity class warzone. Children require a predominantly stable community to develop in. Right now our class has yet to develop such a space. The only people who do have such a space is the middle class, although I would hardly consider their sense of community and family to be either productive or positive, only predominantly stable, and the results of this environment of development are clear. Perhaps in the future this will change but it will require solidarity from our class within itself. Unrepentant, unrelenting, unapologetic, and eventually immovable solidarity towards our own distinct and sovereign interests.
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Sounds great ideally, but you also have to consider all the chemicals leaking after NATO bombed and all the shit they dropped onto there. I’m sure that’s a factor, but yes ideally, I’d consider going there too.
Did I miss the news, when did NATO bombed Siberia? Or are you talking about Serbia?
I swear you said Serbia, sorry
I would love to, but I feel that I would never be accepted for a variety of reasons. Whether it be for skin colour, being a foreigner, sexuality, my partner, being from the United States (whether it still exists or not), and so on. So I’m not sure where I’d even go, along with the fact that while I do speak two languages, my second language can not be used very commonly, and most countries that speak it are sadly extremely neoliberal, exploited, or backwards in regards to many social, political, financial, and etc aspects.
Money would also be a major issue sadly, as travel is purposefully made to be impossible. Starting from an absurd passport application process which costs hundreds upon hundreds of dollars, the offices work inane hours like M-W 9-2, visas which work the same way, and tickets to anywhere are thousands of dollars, making it impossible for anyone beyond the rich in the US to afford.
So I think I’ll have to stay in the US for the time being, maybe not my state as it is a weird mix of weirdly progressive in some aspects and extremely backwards in most others. The state’s basically holding on by a thread from become a true fascist hellhole like Florida.
I don’t think I’ll leave, I’d hope to become a professional revolutionary or something, maybe if the anarchists are right that the fall of the US is imminent I could wage PPW or something. if full fascism does come upon the US and my life is threatened and the risk is not worth it, I’d hope to flee to Nicaragua.
