I’m not afraid of the batteries. My parents’ original Prius made it to 150,000 miles on the original pack before it was totaled in an accident.
I’m worried about all the electric gimmicks in the cabin breaking, and the cameras recording me and everyone else and selling the data, and getting into an accident because I had to swipe through five screens to adjust the temperature.
I cannot wait for the day we can communicate not only visually and aurally but through our phones with smell. Like send your loved one a flower that bees have been trying and failing to eat. And send to your annoying sibling a bouquet of farts every hour on the hour for their birthday, playing pachelbels Canon and chiming the time in ass like churchbells
This is why i only buy used old cars. Until we have cars without spyware I’ll never go electric.
Laws required:
zero cameras on or in cars.
Everything required to be user repairable (within reason. Obviously a battery pack may not be fixable)
headlights shall be below xxx lumens on bright, and or have a 3 position switch to change them from “blind everyone” to “pretty bright” to “low beam to not blind every person oncoming”
Why can’t we have nice things? (Billionaires is why). Imagine how much our lives would improve from these laws.
I’ll consent to a backup camera. I have never had one and never needed one but I can see the appeal. I’d advocate for extra convex mirrors on side mirrors too, they are awesome, like the 2014 fiestas have!
I installed a backup camera that is always on and replaced the rear view mirror on my 1980s van because the rear window was partially obscured by the factory camping equipment. The van is so slow you need to know what’s behind you before changing lanes and it was difficult to back up in certain angles even with great side mirrors.
Modern cars with rollover and better crash structures have even worse rearward visibility and really do benefit from back up cameras. Unfortunately with the types of cars being sold in the last 25 years, bigger pillars and airbags are needed if you want to survive an accident.
When I drive my van I treat it like a motorcycle and assume everyone is out to kill my if I get complacent.
Youre blind if you dont see thats the exact reason for it. You also think flock promotes safety and data centers are solely for fun generative image creation I’m sure. Nothing nefarious at all going on.
You really should be putting your full ID on here to post so we can verify it. Since that’s also “safe”.
I’ve had one for six years… Still forget it’s there unless I’m backing into a really tight spot and happen to notice the screen when I’m looking side to side at the mirrors.
Interesting that you guys call them backup cameras - makes it sound like it’s a redundant camera to be used when one fails - as we call them reversing cameras here in Aus.
I’ve always been one to use my mirrors when reversing and saw no need for the reversing camera but then I bought a new car and it definitely does help in certain situations. More than anything, it’ll help me detect a child behind the car better if that ever happens. I still mostly use my mirrors but it’s handy to have the video there to refer to if needed.
I was like you a few months ago, and then I started digging. This is an excellent time to get your hands on really good value 2nd hand EVs.
Some of the early Tesla competitors came out with EVs that were essentially ICE platforms with physical buttons and no spyware and way better build quality and without the FSD AI garbage that caused more accidents than if humans had been driving.
And there are new brands that are hearing the anti-screen sentiment and bringing out new models with physical buttons too. Now that solar is plateauing, EVs will become ubiquitous and charging networks are the next rapid expansion of the electrify everything.
Re your laws: I believe the EU just passed a law that all new cars now need to have cameras for driver attention monitoring. I think this comes from the insurance lobby.
For sure. The volt was a sweet idea IMO and simpler than people think.
Yeah, that camera thing is bullshit. I’d be ripping those out or taping over them instantly. I think insurance company ceos should have a camera shoved up their ass so we can see what they had for dinner. Only fair. Maybe an IMAX camera so its ultra HD.
Yeah, 4WD would be great. I’m also hoping they make other types of cars. A simple electric roadster with RWD would be awesome, as would a small, simple electric hatchback.
Right! I’d go for an electric with none of those gimmicks (and non of all those mainenance-heavy ICE attachments) … just an 80s-style cushy car with battery, radio & music player … in a minute.
I mostly agree but there are two things I really want a car to have: adaptive cruise control and air conditioning pumped through the seats. And the thing is that everyone probably has two tech things they can’t live without, and everyone’s two things are different.
The Telo ain’t gonna happen. My understanding is they have no plan for manufacturing.
Slate is going to deliver at least a few thousand units. They’re going to be behind schedule. It’s September, they’re talking about Q4 2026 deliveries, and not a single truck has rolled off the line. They’re touring the country doing press events and demo rides in engineering validation trucks. They’ll make it half or maybe a whole model year before folding.
Yeah, we’re at 110k miles on our original batteries (standard hybrid) and not seeing a significant drop in mileage yet. The dude at the dealership kept trying to convince me that the batteries would go bad every 40k and it’d be 8 large at least for a new battery. I wouldn’t have bought new if I could have gotten that one damn feature I wanted used, and that damn safety feature has literally kept us out of accidents.
I still can’t eat my lunch in the back seat in a parking lot without getting hit by a car though. Fucking wreck magnet I am.
It’s completely self proclaimed, but I’m a battery guy and electronics and automotive repair type of guy. Right down to rebuilding my gen 2 Prius battery that now has about 300,000 miles (482,000 km) on it, including when the original battery failed.
You should worry about both of those things if you’re buying used.
Prius batteries last so long because they keep a pretty narrow charge\discharge range, despite the total batteries capacity.
But beyond that, the EV batteries in almost all the fully electric vehicles on the road don’t have a km used until failure issue. They have an age issue. Lithium batteries have a shelf life, so to speak. It doesn’t matter if the battery has 30,000 km on it or 300,000 km. None of them will last beyond 20 years before they start going bad and there’s nothing you can do about it.
That being said, LifePO4 are absolutely the most chemically stable and long lasting lithium based battery currently in any EV’s. if you’re in the market for an older EV with a lithium battery, either plan on replacing the entire battery at some point (check how much it may cost you. Ranges from $6,000 to over $25,000 in some cases) or at least find one that uses LifePO4 as the battery.
Jury is still out on the semi solid state or solid state batteries. Sodium based batteries “should” outlast the vehicle they’re in, but there aren’t many in production outside of China yet and they aren’t as energy dense so will typically be in shorter ranged vehicles.
It totally sucks that everything is littered with hard to get to and expensive to replace electronics they all use. It will be a pain trying to have a classic ev in the future when caps start leaking everywhere and you can’t find replacement necessary to function touchscreens.
None of them will last beyond 20 years before they start going bad and there’s nothing you can do about it.
there’s a useful life for ev service, and there’s a useful life after ev service. seeing these arrays being recycled for power storage is the way.
that said: good luck getting all the complex shit in an ICE car to last 20 fuckin years lol. something is gonna give. EVs seem complex, but it’s far simpler than the array of shit needed to make gas blammo work as motive force for transport.
OMG. So first of all, I literally have two working ice vehicles right now that are over 20 years old… So lol to how ignorant you are on the subject.
Which also flows right into old EV batteries being used for power storage. A 20 year old EV battery would be absolute dogshit for power storage. Like I said before, it isn’t a cycle degradation issue as much as a time issue. The battery chemistry cause cell failure over time. It can’t be meaningfully used for energy storage. The cells go BAD.
you literally have two working ice vehicles that are 20 years old and haven’t had anything changed / replaced?
like, there’s components on both platforms that will need to be replaced eventually. brake pads. hvac coolant. I’d be amazed if your 20yr old ice vehicle had it’s original alternator, water pump, etc.,
because the burning focus you’re placing on the cells themselves is silly when you think about all the maintenance and repair / replacement an ICE vehicle will require.
I do repairs myself. But engine coolant is like every 7 years and costs $40. Brakes are $50 every 5+ years. Fun fact, you’re supposed to replace the coolant and may have to replace the coolant pump on EVs as well. They run liquid cooling for the battery and the inverter.
An alternator is typically sub $200 and takes like an hour to replace.
You skipped the most frequent thing. Oil changes.
None of that little stuff at all ads up to the ruining of value cost of a $15,000 battery going bad. I’ve been driving older vehicles for nearly 30 years. I know the costs pretty damned well. Most EVs are still more of a cost sink for regular people than a small ice vehicle that gets 35+ mpg. Tire changes are less frequent and cheaper. The upfront cost of an EV is more, the resell value is a bigger loss, and you’re not saving that much in fuel unless you can charge your ev for free. It’s getting pretty close to the tipping point, and it will get there, but it hasn’t yet. Not unless you’re in a country that gives you access to low cost Chinese made EVs.
None of that little stuff at all ads up to the ruining of value cost of a $15,000 battery going bad.
lol keep moving the goalposts. your ice vehicle is gonna require way more repairs over it’s lifetime, chump.
oh did you forget the point of it all? tho the costs are fucking cheap for each little component, your ice bullshit is going to destroy the ecosystem. goddamn every two minutes you petrol heads have to be reminded that your fucking fetish is killing us all.
GODDAMNIT WHY CAN’T EVERYTHING BE CHEAP LIKE THIS MASS PRODUCED PRODUCT THAT’S BEEN MADE IN THE BILLIONS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS? WHAAAA
you fucking babies are going to kill us all
meanwhile, you know how much I spend to drive an EV 45 miles each way to work? $44, PER MONTH, and it’s charged on solar and (if for some reason there’s no sun for ages) hydro.
good luck getting that out of an ice car while you choke on the exhaust.
I’ve literally have over 20 year old vehicles and it literally has not cost me that much at all for any of them. Not even close. You aren’t spending $15k on an ice vehicle unless your engine and transmission both need replaced and you’re paying someone else to do it.
I’m not afraid of the batteries. My parents’ original Prius made it to 150,000 miles on the original pack before it was totaled in an accident.
I’m worried about all the electric gimmicks in the cabin breaking, and the cameras recording me and everyone else and selling the data, and getting into an accident because I had to swipe through five screens to adjust the temperature.
That’s not just electric cars, thats just included as fascism grows.
It’s actually just cheaper to build a screen then all the knobs. It makes economic sense for the company bottom line
NO SHUT UP ITS BECAUSE OF FASCISM /s
sorry I couldn’t hear you
Id hope not, we’re communicating with text :)
I cannot wait for the day we can communicate not only visually and aurally but through our phones with smell. Like send your loved one a flower that bees have been trying and failing to eat. And send to your annoying sibling a bouquet of farts every hour on the hour for their birthday, playing pachelbels Canon and chiming the time in ass like churchbells
Ngl, lemmy, reddit, and all major social media wojld STINK so bad
From AdBlockers to SmellBlockers
Evolutionary advantage
It’s cheaper to drown a baby than raise it. What’s your fucking point?
But it’s also the reason Teslur leads all brands in crash rates. EU is banning screen interfaces.
Well EU car companies are also going bankrupt… Wonder why 🤔🤔🤔
This is why i only buy used old cars. Until we have cars without spyware I’ll never go electric.
Laws required:
Why can’t we have nice things? (Billionaires is why). Imagine how much our lives would improve from these laws.
Backup cameras are really nice actually, especially if they have that little grid showing you where the car is going to turn into.
I’ll consent to a backup camera. I have never had one and never needed one but I can see the appeal. I’d advocate for extra convex mirrors on side mirrors too, they are awesome, like the 2014 fiestas have!
backup cams are required on new cars in some jurisdictions, including u.s., canada, european union…
I could also see that being a sinister move to normalize cameras in cars. As usual “safety!!!” Is the death knell of privacy.
I installed a backup camera that is always on and replaced the rear view mirror on my 1980s van because the rear window was partially obscured by the factory camping equipment. The van is so slow you need to know what’s behind you before changing lanes and it was difficult to back up in certain angles even with great side mirrors.
Modern cars with rollover and better crash structures have even worse rearward visibility and really do benefit from back up cameras. Unfortunately with the types of cars being sold in the last 25 years, bigger pillars and airbags are needed if you want to survive an accident.
When I drive my van I treat it like a motorcycle and assume everyone is out to kill my if I get complacent.
Oh park your paranoia.
Youre blind if you dont see thats the exact reason for it. You also think flock promotes safety and data centers are solely for fun generative image creation I’m sure. Nothing nefarious at all going on.
You really should be putting your full ID on here to post so we can verify it. Since that’s also “safe”.
I’ve had one for six years… Still forget it’s there unless I’m backing into a really tight spot and happen to notice the screen when I’m looking side to side at the mirrors.
Interesting that you guys call them backup cameras - makes it sound like it’s a redundant camera to be used when one fails - as we call them reversing cameras here in Aus.
I’ve always been one to use my mirrors when reversing and saw no need for the reversing camera but then I bought a new car and it definitely does help in certain situations. More than anything, it’ll help me detect a child behind the car better if that ever happens. I still mostly use my mirrors but it’s handy to have the video there to refer to if needed.
They’re cameras used to back up a vehicle. “Back up” can mean “to produce a redundant copy of,” or “to move backwards.”
Those back cameras have saved billions in insurance claims.
And the lives of hundreds of children.
Also the little sensors (so cameras) that tell you when someone is in your blind spot
I was like you a few months ago, and then I started digging. This is an excellent time to get your hands on really good value 2nd hand EVs.
Some of the early Tesla competitors came out with EVs that were essentially ICE platforms with physical buttons and no spyware and way better build quality and without the FSD AI garbage that caused more accidents than if humans had been driving.
And there are new brands that are hearing the anti-screen sentiment and bringing out new models with physical buttons too. Now that solar is plateauing, EVs will become ubiquitous and charging networks are the next rapid expansion of the electrify everything.
Re your laws: I believe the EU just passed a law that all new cars now need to have cameras for driver attention monitoring. I think this comes from the insurance lobby.
For sure. The volt was a sweet idea IMO and simpler than people think.
Yeah, that camera thing is bullshit. I’d be ripping those out or taping over them instantly. I think insurance company ceos should have a camera shoved up their ass so we can see what they had for dinner. Only fair. Maybe an IMAX camera so its ultra HD.
The cameras also prevent theft.
I mean, fucking idiots are napping on highways.
The only electric vehicle I’m interested in is the Slate truck because it doesn’t have any of those things.
Right there with you my human. If only the range didn’t suck (I live in big country) and it was 4WD!!maybe there will be community mods who knows.
I’ve heard there are 4WD ideas for the future, either an add on or future model
Yeah, 4WD would be great. I’m also hoping they make other types of cars. A simple electric roadster with RWD would be awesome, as would a small, simple electric hatchback.
Oo ya a cool hatch would be sweet. Something in the form of a Renault 5 turbo style and I will buy it on the spot.
Put the batteries in the front for authentic lift-off oversteer!
Why do you associate spyware with electric cars? EVs have the same level of spyware found in ICE vehicles.
Yeah, every new car does. I’m against new cars basically.
Right! I’d go for an electric with none of those gimmicks (and non of all those mainenance-heavy ICE attachments) … just an 80s-style cushy car with battery, radio & music player … in a minute.
I mostly agree but there are two things I really want a car to have: adaptive cruise control and air conditioning pumped through the seats. And the thing is that everyone probably has two tech things they can’t live without, and everyone’s two things are different.
Your two things are the same as my two things. Adaptive cruise control especially would be hard to give up at this point.
Hello future Slate owner!
yeah looking forward to the slate and the telo (it’s so freakin cute!)
but prob will end up with the slate. now I have to find a 3d printer big enough to make body panels lol
The Telo ain’t gonna happen. My understanding is they have no plan for manufacturing.
Slate is going to deliver at least a few thousand units. They’re going to be behind schedule. It’s September, they’re talking about Q4 2026 deliveries, and not a single truck has rolled off the line. They’re touring the country doing press events and demo rides in engineering validation trucks. They’ll make it half or maybe a whole model year before folding.
Yeah, we’re at 110k miles on our original batteries (standard hybrid) and not seeing a significant drop in mileage yet. The dude at the dealership kept trying to convince me that the batteries would go bad every 40k and it’d be 8 large at least for a new battery. I wouldn’t have bought new if I could have gotten that one damn feature I wanted used, and that damn safety feature has literally kept us out of accidents.
I still can’t eat my lunch in the back seat in a parking lot without getting hit by a car though. Fucking wreck magnet I am.
It’s completely self proclaimed, but I’m a battery guy and electronics and automotive repair type of guy. Right down to rebuilding my gen 2 Prius battery that now has about 300,000 miles (482,000 km) on it, including when the original battery failed.
You should worry about both of those things if you’re buying used.
Prius batteries last so long because they keep a pretty narrow charge\discharge range, despite the total batteries capacity.
But beyond that, the EV batteries in almost all the fully electric vehicles on the road don’t have a km used until failure issue. They have an age issue. Lithium batteries have a shelf life, so to speak. It doesn’t matter if the battery has 30,000 km on it or 300,000 km. None of them will last beyond 20 years before they start going bad and there’s nothing you can do about it.
That being said, LifePO4 are absolutely the most chemically stable and long lasting lithium based battery currently in any EV’s. if you’re in the market for an older EV with a lithium battery, either plan on replacing the entire battery at some point (check how much it may cost you. Ranges from $6,000 to over $25,000 in some cases) or at least find one that uses LifePO4 as the battery.
Jury is still out on the semi solid state or solid state batteries. Sodium based batteries “should” outlast the vehicle they’re in, but there aren’t many in production outside of China yet and they aren’t as energy dense so will typically be in shorter ranged vehicles.
It totally sucks that everything is littered with hard to get to and expensive to replace electronics they all use. It will be a pain trying to have a classic ev in the future when caps start leaking everywhere and you can’t find replacement necessary to function touchscreens.
there’s a useful life for ev service, and there’s a useful life after ev service. seeing these arrays being recycled for power storage is the way.
that said: good luck getting all the complex shit in an ICE car to last 20 fuckin years lol. something is gonna give. EVs seem complex, but it’s far simpler than the array of shit needed to make gas blammo work as motive force for transport.
OMG. So first of all, I literally have two working ice vehicles right now that are over 20 years old… So lol to how ignorant you are on the subject.
Which also flows right into old EV batteries being used for power storage. A 20 year old EV battery would be absolute dogshit for power storage. Like I said before, it isn’t a cycle degradation issue as much as a time issue. The battery chemistry cause cell failure over time. It can’t be meaningfully used for energy storage. The cells go BAD.
hey now let’s leave the deities out of it…
you literally have two working ice vehicles that are 20 years old and haven’t had anything changed / replaced?
like, there’s components on both platforms that will need to be replaced eventually. brake pads. hvac coolant. I’d be amazed if your 20yr old ice vehicle had it’s original alternator, water pump, etc.,
because the burning focus you’re placing on the cells themselves is silly when you think about all the maintenance and repair / replacement an ICE vehicle will require.
Oh no. Not the little cheap repairs.
I do repairs myself. But engine coolant is like every 7 years and costs $40. Brakes are $50 every 5+ years. Fun fact, you’re supposed to replace the coolant and may have to replace the coolant pump on EVs as well. They run liquid cooling for the battery and the inverter.
An alternator is typically sub $200 and takes like an hour to replace.
You skipped the most frequent thing. Oil changes.
None of that little stuff at all ads up to the ruining of value cost of a $15,000 battery going bad. I’ve been driving older vehicles for nearly 30 years. I know the costs pretty damned well. Most EVs are still more of a cost sink for regular people than a small ice vehicle that gets 35+ mpg. Tire changes are less frequent and cheaper. The upfront cost of an EV is more, the resell value is a bigger loss, and you’re not saving that much in fuel unless you can charge your ev for free. It’s getting pretty close to the tipping point, and it will get there, but it hasn’t yet. Not unless you’re in a country that gives you access to low cost Chinese made EVs.
lol keep moving the goalposts. your ice vehicle is gonna require way more repairs over it’s lifetime, chump.
oh did you forget the point of it all? tho the costs are fucking cheap for each little component, your ice bullshit is going to destroy the ecosystem. goddamn every two minutes you petrol heads have to be reminded that your fucking fetish is killing us all.
GODDAMNIT WHY CAN’T EVERYTHING BE CHEAP LIKE THIS MASS PRODUCED PRODUCT THAT’S BEEN MADE IN THE BILLIONS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS? WHAAAA
you fucking babies are going to kill us all
meanwhile, you know how much I spend to drive an EV 45 miles each way to work? $44, PER MONTH, and it’s charged on solar and (if for some reason there’s no sun for ages) hydro.
good luck getting that out of an ice car while you choke on the exhaust.
I’ve literally have over 20 year old vehicles and it literally has not cost me that much at all for any of them. Not even close. You aren’t spending $15k on an ice vehicle unless your engine and transmission both need replaced and you’re paying someone else to do it.
i get it dude, you don’t care lol.
your kids will tho. tsk.
Thanks for the tip: When buying a used RV it’s how old the batteries are plus how many miles.
And I don’t care that there won’t be “classic EVs” because I haven’t seen one other than the Slate that seems more than an appliance.
My leaf just has buttons for all the things that normally have buttons. There is a touchscreen, but you can use buttons to control it.
Its possible but I think its cheaper to just use a screen, and we all know that nothing is more important than Line Go Up.