Some young American workers are moving to Europe in hopes of a healthier and happier life.
25 years I’ve been abroad (The Netherlands) and the work-life balance is why I stayed. They insist I take days off (still foolishly work like an American) and have already booked out a 3 week vacation for later in the year…and I’ll still have nearly 2 weeks of vacation left. We can roll a few weeks of vacation over to the next year if not used. Even though the Dutch have NO holidays from June to Christmas, I’m still able to take 4 day weekends when I want to.
The downside is family left behind may begin to resent you. My family have developed this red-hat victim culture. I can’t bring up how I live abroad or else it starts fights - they don’t want to talk to me now.
Same with the resentment! Lots of people in the US don’t want to hear how much better it is elsewhere. GrEaTesT NaTiOn oN eArTh!
It’s funny, because if you’re living in the US and bringing up topics (like e.g. healthcare, parental leave, vacation time, sick days, the school system, universal access to universities and higher education, traffic deaths, gun violence, etc. etc. etc.) the reaction is often “well, if you hate it so much, why don’t you just leave?”
And then, when you actually leave and live a much more enjoyable and happy life elsewhere, the reaction is “we don’t want to hear about it!!!”
They didn’t want to hear about it in the first place ;)
Sometimes you just have to make the changes you can. For me, it was time to go - I wanted to see more of the world, to work and explore and see life differently. My family wanted something different: solidity, family, planting themselves. I needed to explore. We both got what we needed.
Honestly, EVERY country is doing this. “If you ain’t dutch, you ain’t much” is our ridiculous motto. Pfft.
Gold plated shithole for those of us unwilling to delude ourselves with that crap.
looks like you should stop talking to that family of yours
Too late. They stopped taking to me.
Conservativism rots the brain. Imagine disowning your own fucking family simply because they moved to a different place. Disgusting.
Doesn’t sound like a massive loss, friend. People grow apart, even if they are your blood relatives. The family you choose is far more important, especially if your family gets angry and even writes you off at your lack of equivalent suffering. Americans are so weird about suffering being a positive, “character building” experience for its own sake.
I’m jealous of you btw, you did what I was too chickenshit to do and you reached the promised land.
Sorry to hear that.
I have my family sparsed all over Europe and the world. Just because we are away doesn’t mean we don’t talk with eachother.
Of course my parents would prefer that we were nearby but they understand.
Lifebalance is just as important as money in the end.
Seriously been considering moving the family to the Netherlands or Sweden.
Lived in a few places in Europe over the years. Currently in Canada, which is slowly sliding into being a hellhole like America. 😓
I’ll be retiring soon and move to Asia with the wife. We’ll leave the light on for ya… 👍
Thanks. Where abouts in Asia? Had a friend retire in Singapore and they’ve been loving it.
Close by - have an Indonesian wife I met here and we’re looking at land in Bali.
My family is really gonna hate me now.
I also moved to the Netherlands recently (but from Germany) and their holiday schedule feels really weird to me. You get a lot from April to June and then nothing until Christmas. They should’ve spaced that out better.
Germany isn’t that much better, in most states you get two public holidays between June and December, 3rd October and either reformation day or all-saints’ day, and those can all be on the weekend so in a bad year you get zero additional days off.
I am from Saxony and there you get Buß- und Bettag, that’s always a Wednesday. You still get 2 holidays four times out of six years in the worst case in other states.
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You do know that most public holidays are based on christian events right? Spacing those out is only possible if we separate those days from religion.
The statuary minimum holiday entitlement of 20 days (most employers give 25+) can be used freely.
I mean, to be fair, many of those holidays aren’t actually based on when Christian events happened. It’s usually more like co-opting an already existing pagan holiday, and forcing it to fit into some story about their religion. It’s often not even in the same fucking season of when an actual event in Christianity may have happened (if at all).
Heh, even here in the home of Christianity we have multiple secular holidays: liberation day, workers’ day, republic day, ferragosto …
Cool thing is, you can even make up holidays if you want!
I mean, they kinda place King’s/Queen’s Day how it suits them. And there are possible Christian holidays in the second half of the year as well.
FYI: King’s day is celebrated on the king’s birthday. Not on some randomly selected day.
Sure, that’s why they kept it at the 30.4., when Beatrix got queen, who has her birthday on 31.1.
Except for Queen Beatrix’s birthday which was originally in January and her mother’s was in September, but both of them celebrated Queen’s day in April.
So they really move the date around as it is convenient to be a nicer celebration.
Why the resentment though? Is it because they’re thinking that they had it terrible and therefore you should too? That you’re not a loyal worker and therefore less of a person because of that?
Or can it be that they feel left behind and you talking about how great it is to them sounds like you don’t miss them or regret moving away?
I tried not to parade the differences around, but there would inevitably be issues with any comparisons made. I’m a Democrat, and they are very Republican; this last president has made things very hard. It’s also possibly just simple envy - my father suggested it when he was still with us all - and I’ve tried to keep in touch and be there for children’s birthdays, etc, but now they just turn away. Or just convienent: now 25 years later, I think the friends are more family that actual family.
Jealous! I’d love to be able to move out of the US, but seems you need certain jobs in order to go. Don’t think I qualify, so will continue to be a slave to the system here.
Dunno how old you are, but you can take a loan to study in Europe, get a job, and decide whether you want to pay back the loan or not. If you plan on never returning to the US, then AFAIK, you don’t have to pay back shit and there’s nothing they can do. Although, maybe that changed when the USA started demanding taxes from Americans abroad and forcing banks to close their accounts abroad too… who knows.
Anyway, it’ll probably be cheaper for you to move to Europe.
I’m 33 and have a 1 year old son, I feel like the ship has sailed for me.
You might not know how much you can do. If refugees can travel from Afghanistan all the way to France with their entire family, you can do it from the US. Dunno what you’re doing, but crafts and trades jobs are also understaffed across Europe. Germany is even trying to be attractive to nurses all the way from India!
Don’t underestimate yourself.
Pretty much what u/woobwub said, I just want to add that here in Germany, all kinds of craftspeople (like carpenters, plumbers, electricians, construction workers, tile setters, you name it) are in desperate demand, with demographic change probably being the biggest reason. Companies offering these services are overbooked and can demand ludicrous prices, while simultaneously lamenting about not being able to get young, motivated apprentices.
To be fair, a lot of said companies still pay their apprentices peanuts while treating them like shit and blaming their staff shortage on the lazy young generation not wanting to work. But if you’re a qualified worker in any of these professions, most companies would gladly hire someone like you. If, and here’s the big catch, if you can speak German somewhat fluently. And our language is a confusing clusterfuck to learn, or so I’ve heard.
Anyhow, best of wishes to you and your son (and family), whether you manage to emigrate to a less latestage-capitalism-infested country or try and build up a good life in the US.
Ah yes, let’s commit international credit fraud, I’m sure it’ll be fine…
I know somebody who actually did it and returns frequently to visit. And is it international if the bank is in the US? 🤔
As an American who has been abroad for many years, can confirm! I’m visiting the states at the moment and its crazy to hear a family member talking about trying to convince their boss that the employees should get five paid sick days a year instead of only three. Three! A year! Insane.
sick days even
Five!!!
insane
What are you supposed to do?
Turn up, shit yourself, keep helping customers?
Or do you turn up, shit yourself, then get fired?
Ok, but what matters is your turned up /s
Last year was super shitty, I had COVID twice and Shingles with nerve pains, I’ve been on sick leave for more than a month over the year, it would have been a disaster without socialized healthcare and workers’ insurance
America becoming a third world country.
Always was
(••) (••)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
If only they would leave their political affiliations and a few bad bits of their culture in the US too, that’d be great. They’re otherwise very welcome here, as is anybody else who wants to embrace the European lifestyle and integrate, Iranian, Afghan, Australian, Kenyan, Brazilian, Turkish, whatever.
If you understand that the high salary is to meet the high cost of living in the United States then you’ll understand that it isn’t a pay cut. Take that one step further and consider the fact that the higher cost of living does NOT come with a higher quality of life in the US.
If I had the money, I’d be running for Europe right now. America has gone to shit and it is only going to get worse from here
The paperwork and logistics is going to be a bitch, but if you can start looking for a job in Europe from your current location, the move itself might be less expansive than you expect.
See, that’s the thing. I’m in film and my goal is to parlay this work into a work visa in Europe for this exact reason. I love my work, but I want benefits and protections that just aren’t afforded me here (because my particular Union in my area is problematic as fuck, not to mention hard to break into). But my concern is how this even gets done.
The US has made it very difficult for citizens of other countries to get paperwork to live and work here, so we see a lot of reciprocation in level of difficulty to leave this place. I wish I could get someone to give me some info on the process that’s been through it
Be aware that a lot of US studios love to shoot in Germany, because our unions in the film business are non existent and they can shoot longer and pay less in Germany.
My boyfriend only has a year left of nursing school. With so many countries having a shortage, we are thinking that might help us. Like apperantly in Japan they have a program to get people in for nursing and you can buy a house for cheap. But I’m not sure if I want to love in Japan. About 3-4 months ago I actually had some people from Australia on reddit giving me a lot of good info to help us get over there, and one person was talking to me about New Zealand.
So here’s to hoping. I’m gonna miss my family and friends. It’s gonna be hard, but I’m tired of this place.
Don’t worry. It’s also going to shit on this side of the pond.
It seems to be going to shit in most of the world these days. The fight for freedom and against consolation of power is a never-ending fight.
The future still seems better in western/northern Europe than the US.
Honestly, I moved to Germany two years ago, and I would only go back if my family needed my help in the US. Life feels a lot easier, and more comfortable. Yeah, the winter sucks, but even then I’m outside more than when I lived in the US.
There is no bad weather, just bad clothes.
how are you cold? just put on another layer B)
You must dress like an onion.
Oh I don’t need clothes to look like one.
I’ve found that that’s actually very true.
What’s wrong with winter?
Since I came from a very dry, hot area, I’m not used to such long winters, weather that cold, and days that short.
as an European I have to say:
please stop advertising this, they will all come here with their American dreams and turn Europe in USA.
I’m yet to see two of them actually connecting the dots between the “American dream” and the horrible labor laws. They want the wellbeing we have but they also want the rampant capitalism, they think “socialism == communism”
American here - this stuff is actually widely known and accepted among our progressives, who are the people most likely by far to leave.
We just get fucked out of political power at the federal level by the outsized representation of small-population, rural, die-hard-conservative states. For example if the presidency was by popular vote we likely wouldn’t have had a Republican president since 93 which would have made the supreme court liberal by 8-1.
At the most fundamental level, the US political system just wasn’t built to handle the increasing rural/urban population disparity, and at some point things will need to change. What that change looks like is anybody’s guess. One scenario is that with the economic failure of the backwaters, plus the housing crisis and additional automation, it becomes economically feasible to just build/buy enough housing in the backwaters to be able to have a controlling share in the vote. Which obviously sucks in a lot of ways but it might be the solution with the lowest barrier to entry.
Clumping 332 million people together and expecting that they’re all the exact same.
Come on, buddy.
I wouldn’t worry too much about that. The most reactionary people in the US, those who think socialism is communism and horrible labor laws are “freedom,” are too heavily indoctrinated into their own little death cult. They honestly believe there is no country more free than the US and are genuinely fearful of the idea of living anywhere else, they would never move to Europe.
People who live in reality, on the other hand, see how horrible it has become in the US and are looking for a real “land of opportunity,” where you do not have to be a willing slave to capital in order to have the right to the basic necessities of life. They are fully disillusioned with the “American dream,” and so are more open-minded toward socialism, and are more willing to agree that maybe most countries in Europe provide them with real, actual freedom far more that what they have living in the US.
This has been my experience with immigrants from the US, anyways (and, full disclosure, I am an immigrant as well, just not in Europe).
That’s a weird take on the subject, most American I’ve met or worked with where surprised but happy about our ways.
We might have met totally different kinds of people.
I think you should take the time to actually talk to people rather than throw rancied judgments all around
Wow you’re generalizing way too much! An American that had the will to move out of the US is proof enough they think differently, probably. Give them a chance.
A lady I work with in the Netherlands sent me an email Friday. I responded and got an OOTO message saying she’s out till 7/31
Definitely jealous
Damn, isn’t 8 years a bit much?
Dunno. Could be 9 years and then I’d be in trouble
I’m in Asia and receive OOTO emails all the time, meanwhile we work even during holidays 🙃. A co worker is a Chilean, and during her 3 weeks leave to go back home after years of not taking any leave, she worked day and night, slept only 3 hours the whole stay. We Asians were successfully brainwashed into the hustle culture
It’s a thing I like about Germans. They tend to be more strict about working hours than other EU countries, let alone somewhere like America.
I worked in the Netherlands for a while, and we’d get loads of German visitors. When we were nearing closing time, we’d often have German visitors going “It’s his ‘Feierabend’(end of day). He can’t help you anymore”. Especially when they had a problem that would last till after closing time to solve. And then when you told them “no, no. It’s fine.” they were genuinely grateful. They didn’t expect you to work, when you were no longer being paid to.
You shift starts. You work. Your shift ends. You are no longer working.
The unsurprising result: experts often say German workers outperform American workers. Turns out strictly enforcing working hours, allowing workers to recuperate when they’re not on shift, means they end up working harder when they are on shift.
I worked for the US division of a German company and found that the culture even for the US workers was very respectful of time off and appropriate working hours. I hated the job because I was customer facing and our customers were typically large US companies, but the German company was a great company to work for.
I’d do it if I could afford it or was younger. Honestly wish I had. The sacrifice now, with family and kids, is too massive.
You can get a new family and kids! Or bring em I guess
Muss gerade an diesen Bericht von kürzlich denken, ebenfalls vom glorreichen Business Insider:
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-germany-relocation-american-move-disappointing-2023-6
Lustiger Kontrast.
Was für ein dämlicher Artikel. Wäh, wäh, ich wohne in einem kleinen Dorf und habe nicht Zugang zu allen Modern conveniences wie in einer grossen Stadt. Wäääh… Echt, jetzt?
Haha genau das habe ich beim lesen gedacht. “Warum hilft mir denn keiner? Ich vermisse Walmart!” lol
Mein Highlight war dass sie einen schlechten job hat bei dem sie in einer schwachen Währung Geld verdient aber Deutschland ist teuer.
Generell lustiger Artikel, danke.
“We live in a small German town called Otterberg” had me laughing out loud.
I was wondering where she could be living - maybe Munich or some other city in Bavaria, where people are not exactly known for warming up easily on foreigners (read: people from more than 20 minutes away). But no - she’s living in Otterberg. Hilarious.
Moving abroad is always challenging and not for everyone, some people can’t adapt to a different way of life.
Those damn lazy immigrants only want to exploit us! We can’t accomodate them all!
(I hope it’s clear that this is a joke)
/s is easier to point out it is a joke
If only Europe wanted us there! If moving there were easy, I’d have done it years ago. Unfortunately, I probably need to wait until I retire.
just a heads up, retiring to europe is only possible in very few places and a few more if you’re loaded.
Yep. Focused on a Portuguese passive income visa. Portugal is beautiful
Yeah it’s very attractive but not the easiest to obtain citizenship.
That depends a lot of the country. In some EU countries is rather easy and cheap.
As a former EU citizen (UK, thanks Brexit) which countries do you think it is easy? I don’t think it is, I believe there is Malta where you can literally buy a passport and Portugal that has some lax visa laws. But gaining citizenship isn’t necessarily an easy thing to do.
You are correct with Portugal, I found this on some website:
Portugal is, overall, the easiest country to get citizenship of the EU.
That’s due to the following factors:
Short residency period of just five years before applying for citizenship One of the world’s most powerful passports Range of flexible visa options to suit remote workers, retirees and investors Dual citizenship OK – keep your original passport Easy language requirements – A2 elementary level Access generous tax benefits while counting up the years to citizenship Reasonable minimum stay requirements What’s more, Portugal has one of Western Europe’s lowest costs of livingCitizenship is easy to get once you already live in the country, not just Portugal, Luxembourg is probably easier even, the language requirement is a low level of Luxembourgish. Of course for that you first need residency. In Portugal is again easy, as long as you have a job contract, Portugal has probably the most liberal migration laws in the EU right now (yeah, wages are low).
Portugal nationality for non-residents is easy as long as you can prove a family connection, that can be a Portuguese granparent or Portuguese Jewish roots (they can be 5 centuries old, is a compensation for inquisition, but you must be able to prove it, a Portuguese Jewish surname helps).
Portugal’s population is getting smaller each year as natives relocate to other parts of Europe where they can earn a living wage. It’s got it’s own problems, one of them being real estate is too expensive for people born in the country (thanks in part to wealthy immigrants). Regardless, their policies welcome immigration, unlike most countries.
Yeah, I believe they are tax friendly to remote workers and you can get a visa to remain if you’ve got assets that generate €7k income a year.
I’d say it’s still not an easy task to get an EU passport. I’d definitely takes quite a commitment at least.
I heard it’s easy for both Ireland and Italy, if you have some sort of ancestry from there. But that’s a big if.
Do you have any examples? I thought even the more lenient ones require you to study there for 5+ years or work in some highly sought after sector.
Yeah they weren’t looking for people like me last I checked
And only the poor and/or uneducated will stay behind. The USA is going down fast.
Bad take. There aren’t droves of people leaving the U.S.
High skilled immigration to the U.S is still big. Hell, its a problem for European tech companies, as their best engineers get poached by the U.S.
Might be a surprising take for some, but Europeans still move to the U.S today. Not in the droves of the 20th century, but still an amount. 12% of all immigrants to the U.S are from Europe in 2021.
That’s not immigration, those Europeans generally don’t move to the US to stay. The US are a place to make lots of money while your’re young, who the hell would want to fund a family or grow old there: The wages might be high, but to get an equivalent level of social security and general quality of life none of it would be left.
Can confirm. Made the painful decision to move back to Europe because we wouldn’t have been able to afford the kid’s studies, growing old and sick with no retirement and so on
I think it depends. I’m a software dev in the U.S. I have talked to many developers in Europe who feel like they are stuck, and are making a pittance compared to what they make in the U.S. If you were to talk to one of these people, they would be providing a different perspective than what you are telling me right now. And it turns out, moving is hard no matter where you are from.
Personally, I’ve crunched the numbers. Even with social benefits, moving to Europe for me would be a mistake.
Btw, I know multiple European families in the U.S. They aren’t all just here temporarily. Not everyone just keeps moving on a whim.
I’m one of the immigrant families lol.
I think it depends. I’m a software dev in the U.S. I have talked to many developers in Europe who feel like they are stuck, and are making a pittance compared to what they make in the U.S. If you were to talk to one of these people, they would be providing a different perspective than what you are telling me right now. And it turns out, moving is hard no matter where you are from.
Personally, I’ve crunched the numbers. Even with social benefits, moving to Europe for me would be a mistake.
Btw, I know multiple European families in the U.S. They aren’t all just here temporarily. Not everyone just keeps moving on a whim.
I’m one of the immigrant families lol.
I don’t think that’s really true. The US is still the largest economy and attracts many educated and highly skilled people in the tech sector.
Certain parts are declining for sure, but I don’t think that applies to the whole country.
That’s what I mean. The middle class is shrinking to non-existent. The few that can afford to jump out of it do it and only someone who can live really well in the USA would consider going there.
The USA will become a land of the rich and poor. No more middle-class.
The educated are paid way more in the US. Americans buy houses and stuff. Unimaginable for most Europeans who don’t get to inherit one. Also Europe is on the decline. Due to terrible demographics mostly.
Buying a house in a soulless suburb and living on the driver’s seat of a car staring at nothing but other cars and concrete? No, thanks. I believe in the inherent superiority of urbanity.
Also a house that is made of paper
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Please don’t forget healthcare, where you might need that plus money instantly.
You’re being downvoted, but the salary argument is completely true.
I did some calculations before when I was talking to my friend. I live in the U.S now. I’m Romanian. If I were to move back to Romania I’d be taking something like a 70% salary cut. If I were to move somewhere Americans are more familiar with like the Netherlands, I would be taking something like a 40% salary cut.
You guys in here are patting each other on the back, but I’ve talked to some miserable engineers from Europe who feel like they have no way out. They are making a pittance what their peers are making elsewhere.
Americans buy houses and stuff. Unimaginable for most Europeans who don’t get to inherit one.
I’ve got bad news for you. The median income-housing ratio is going down on both sides of the pond.
Agree with the rest though.
Honey what, you seen the housing market recently?? Fuck I’d trip and break my arm and get the Honor of being a slave to the system for the rest of my life
“Terrible demographics” will ensure bigger inheritances to Europeans…
