- cross-posted to:
- latestagecapitalism@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- latestagecapitalism@lemmygrad.ml
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“So long as I’m free to exploit you into subsistence, you’re free to die in the gutter when you’re too broken to produce value for me!”
-The capitalists destroying us and the habitability of the world for any future humans, solely to run up their ego scores.
I’m about three-quarters through Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, and I wonder how she would interpret how reality played out in this country, being that her biggest fears would come from the value system she thought of as the solution.
They always double down with a no true Scotsman defense that we didn’t go far enough or didn’t implement the idea in full. This kicks the can down the line to ensure further exploitation.
We all sit back and act like we know how to fix it all but really we don’t. What we do know, and what we need everyone to understand, this ain’t it. Everything else we are capable of improving given the flexibility to make nessisary change and allocating the resources to appropriate people who have real philosophies and experience to make the change. Getting everyone on board needs to happen first.
How? How? How?
Stop listening. Stop listening to the internet. Stop listening to cable TV. If someone says nothing is wrong and nothing needs to change they are benefiting from the purposefully broken system. Stop listening.
Listen to your neighbor. Listen to the teachers. Listen to community’s. Once we can do all that. Then we need to unite all communities under the common goal of providing rest. The builders have built. The creatives have created. The workers have worked. Now they need to rest. They need to heal. They need to raise children who know what a bright future looks like so they can appreciate this life and their own humanity.
Now, everyone panic and tune out because sadly, I’ve given you an impossible task and you will never overcome your own programming.
Then we need to unite all communities under the common goal of providing rest.
“How? How? How?”
First step is to organize. Join an organization, any organization, or form your own.
First step is to organize.
Then what?
Then, that social movement (organization) puts forth it’s own candidate(s) to displace the corrupt government.
LOL
There is a reason Marxists promote reading history and philosophical theory; because the class struggle has been going on for a long time, and there is much we can learn about our current situation from those that wrote about their experiences in the past.
I don’t know, man.
This problem won’t be solved by me alone.
I don’t pretend to know the full and total solution, but I do know what need to happen… but I know the historical flashpoints tsld to at has so often forced these issues? Th
I do know what need to happen
And what’s that?
I asked kora what they know.
The stringed instrument, or the avatar?
Just read theory, it’s not that hard, and people have been discussing how to get out of this Capitalist hellhole for hundreds of years.
You cant even see there is something fundamentally missing, that being the call to action. People rather endlessly argue about for hundreds of years.
You mean just vibing a revolution into action?
That’s why I am recommending you read theory. For the why of Capitalism’s inevitable demise, Wage Labor and Capital and Value, Price and Profit both do a much better job of actually explaining the inherent unsustainability of Capitalism.
I mean, not treading the same path. I mean defying what we think is the inevitability. Human brains are capable of great things but they are not capable of predicting the future. The future needs to be shaped and molded real time.
Your incredgulousness is so fucking bizarre. You see the same thing day after day, with no changeand you are upset. And I tell you change needs to just go ahead and happen. And you rather it not.
You’re misreading me. Change happens every day. Socialism is the answer
Make socialism happen then
heres some radom impractal ideas.
identify excesses fo power that do not work in the national interest and figure out what stable system can be put in place to regulate those excesses down to lower levels as effectively as possible. simples. /s
regulate banks so that they invest more of your savings in businesses and services that your country needs for your future. (this is a very long term fix as they’ve spent 40-50 years divesting from your society).
regulate capital gains so that business can not meet shareholder needs with asset price bubbles, only dividends. regulate dividends too. (aim is as Keynes said to avoid “whirlpools of speculation” and see only “bubbles” on a steady stream of investment).
nominal transaction tax (tobin tax), and transaction delay times for all exchanges to stop stock markets being ran so fucking stupidly they do not need to trade that much that often
dissociate commercial banks from building societies separate and minimise home loans- but regulate house prices to prevent mortgage bubble. (/ust accept low gdp growth , gdp is fucking made up number) basically do a load of FDR bank regulation stuff that got scrapped in the 70s/80s under dubious pretexts.
better to promote localised banking and local lending coops and such, then the power to make businesses loans is held closer to the savers and borrowers, and can be more accountable just by being a closer group that interacts mmore frequently.
regulate scarce situations that are hard to replicate , rent controls in centre of town or near transit (or other land use regualtion). try to manage away property bubbles - this is part of the reason businesses become uncompetetive, along with all the other stuff that pushes up cost fo living.
Of course regulation is difficult, prone to corruption, as al) the freedoomers will say. It is after all an excess of power - but it it not the only one and might be the only one with a chance of reducing the ppower of the others unles you cound bloody revolutions every now and again that also end up investing a new set of powerful people… And it doesn’t help that one of your(assuming i’m talking to usa by context) parties just works solely on behalf of al those power mongers that most need regulation; their real neat trick,“govt is shit”, “look at us we’re govt”, “you’d better reduce the power of regulators in case you elect idiots like us again” And that line of reasoning is so successful that the other party imitates it.
So you need a way to make the regulators accountable, and elections are not a necessarily the best way to improve regulation , but they can be part of a wider system to hold the regulatros to account. On a more local scale , something like having to explain themselves and their decisions to random anonymous juries. They should also, as public officials have to submit their income and weath statements to the jury of the people to try to demostrate no bribery.
you dont need perfect, just a framework where it can improve bit by bit, and gradually weed out those with excess power orwho abuse it. which basically needs transparency and accountability at a level and frequency that matches the circumstances at hand.
Oh man seething sarcasm, I’m great at this.
These ideas are actually good. I can’t imagine why they won’t be implemented immediately.
haha. yeah clinical depression is the most realistic outcome.
You’ve got a chicken and egg problem here. If you don’t provide any solutions why would anybody follow you? You need an idea for people to get onboard with. Currently leftists mostly don’t know what they want, just that it isn’t this. How is that supposed to convince anyone? You can’t just say the current system doesn’t work then not provide any viable alternatives. Lots of people know the current system isn’t great, but they see it as the best system we have because essentially it is until someone comes up with something that doesn’t turn into the CCP or USSR.
This is your programming speaking. Fear, uncertainty, doubt.
People don’t unite under solutions. They unite under ideas.
There are a million fucking problems, each require their own solution. Each need to be defined, examined, and tested. No one can sit there and say, “just do this.”
The work we are doing, and the work that needs done are in opposition to each other. Right now we are working to feed the system. We need to be working on maintaining the system to feed the people.
There are a million fucking problems, each require their own solution. Each need to be defined, examined, and tested. No one can sit there and say, “just do this.”
This is obvious and I never claimed otherwise. You are reading things into what I have said that aren’t there. Different solutions will always be needed for different problems in different contexts. That’s like engineering 101, and should be applied to politics and economics more.
I don’t care what you claim. It’s not helpful. It’s not having any impact. Change course.
And you think you are? Literally one of the most salty people I have met. You aren’t convincing anyone.
You haven’t met me, you don’t know me, this is an anonymous forum. I could be a salty dog or maybe a limp dick like you but I won’t change a damn thing.
Solutions start with ideas. If you are someone who can’t turn an idea into a workable solution then why would I follow you? The world is full of people who want to be idea people, yet they have no understanding of practical reality. That’s another thing that’s missing from the current leftist movements: understanding of practical reality.
Also I would stop generalising people. I follow solutions, not just ideas. That’s how any engineer should think. After all we are the people who turn lofty goals into reality.
Leftists are at their best when they can see practical problems that everyday people have, and explain why they happen in the context of the larger system and its flaws. Some leftists are great at this. What you need to do is take the next step and propose how you could change, improve, or replace the system and how that would solve the current problems without creating bigger ones. If you can’t do that then ultimately you aren’t going to win in the end, even if you manage to get popular support, even with a revolution.
This is again another type of programing. People arent an engineering problem. Politics will never be removed from emotion.
I’ve told my solution but you instead want a silver bullet. Everyone wants a silver bullet. The silver bullet doesn’t exist and will never come.
We need to build our communities stronger, and need to stop being divided by people with obscene wealth; the people with something to lose if we do just that. Thats what will get us to the next obstacle.
Instead you will wait around for a charismatic leader with the answer to all your problems. Who has come to save us all.
I’ve told my solution but you instead want a silver bullet. Everyone wants a silver bullet.
You haven’t though, just said some vague phrases and hinted that if everyone else just thought like you the problem would resolve itself.
Know how I know you are completely fucked in the head? You think you can fustrate me more than I am already frustrated with the current state of things. We are rock bottom. There is one way out. If you want to stay in the mouse trap you are going to stay in the mouse trap. Nothing I say or do will lead you out.
I’ve told my solution
You haven’t done that.
I am asking for solutions, not some perfect leader. We have seen how leftist ideas of charismatic leaders go, and I don’t want another Lenin, Stalin, or Kim Jong Un. The fact that you jump to the conclusion that solutions = charismatic leader tells me a lot about how you think about politics. Believe it or not not all ideas, systems, and solutions come from the same person. Science isn’t a cult of Sir Isaac Newton so why should politics be this way? Heck why do we even have a single powerful position like President or Prime Minister or King?
Also no you haven’t provided any solutions. All you have done is provide excuses as to why you do not need any. I am not asking for a magic bullet here. I understand that real life systems are necessarily complex and multi-faecited. That’s why having a single leader or person in charge isn’t a smart idea. You can’t ask a single human to have a grasp on the whole of society and all its problems, performance metrics, or trade-offs.
I haven’t provided the solution. Get fucked. HUMANITY hasn’t provided the solution, and it wont! Because if the goal is to have us both walk 100 miles that way and you won’t get off your ass until you think of some shit way to do it, it doesn’t matter if I ride a fucking dinosaur to Timbukto. Short of knocking you on your ass and carrying you there, I can do nothing for the cause.
And to top it all off, in order to preserve the only thing they have left - their freedom - they want to hand the country over to a dictator. It just doesn’t get any more oxymoronic than that.
Fascism is the logical endpoint of capitalism. Just look up the largest German companies, then what they did between 1933 and 1945.
There is an amazing video by a Youtuber called Fredda about Coca Cola in Nazi Germany which goes over how the company worked during that time period and afterwards.
Last Week Tonight did an overview of Fanta being Nazi Coca-Cola. Pretty sure that was their first season too.
Great video.
No, fascism is communism.
Most brain dead take on this thread so far lmao
Communism is on the left end of the political spectrum. Fascism is on the right end.
To be fair, communism as seen under Stalin and fascism aren’t too different, horseshoe theory. Pulling the definition of fascism from wikipedia: “a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.”
Dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation, strong regimentation of the economy, you could see all of those things while Stalin was in power and many continued on subsequent USSR leaders.
It’s no wonder George Orwell, a democratic socialist, saw the USSR and said “fuck no, I don’t want that shit”
Bolsheviks were the most extreme faction, and bred authoritarianism into their movement. Wilson fucked things up for us there. I don’t consider Lenin or Stalin to be communists. They are authoritarian dictators. That’s antithetical to communist ideologies. I understand that the perception may be skewed, but no one thinks that North Korea is a democratic republic, despite their name.
That’s a myth peddled by Americans.
Tell me you’ve never read communist theory, without telling me you’ve never read communist theory.
You realize that even The Christ was a communist? He literally told his followers to live in communes and share.
Lol ok. Brainwashing is hard in you.
Your projection would be hilarious if it wasn’t so embarrassing
You will own nothing and be happy
Thanks for the link. I’d heard the expression in this context before, but never knew where it originated
Shareholders Uber Alles
Ü
No ü
Don’t forget depression, anxiety and thought crime caused by social media addiction
All communist social-media addicts are always hsppy for the rest of their lives, of course! The addiction can’t be the issue, it has to be capitalism!
Hey, I became a lot more hopeful for the future after reading Marx. Capitalism does indeed suck, but it’s unsustainable.
The problem Marx didn’t foresee is that capitalism can sustain itself until it destroys us all. In Nazi Germany, this left the country a bombed out pile of rubble. In modern times, it’s global warming.
Marx definitely foresaw that possibility, his conclusions are more that if there aren’t grand wars or famines eliminating everyone, Capitalism itself cannot last forever, which is far more comforting than assuming socialism can vibe itself into existence.
Lemmy is made by actual communists, so let’s not pretend communism would somehow fix that.
Yea, these are the real communists, not like all those other communists, with their fake communism.
Well, if you ask any communist, they’ll tell you that real communism has never been tried, which implies that all other communists are fake.
That last bit is all conservatives care about keeping though.
They care about keeping the guns because they can’t see they are one stupidity away from the guns being used on them. All it will take is all those idiots believing something bad about their leadership. Something that may not even have a shred of truth. After all once a regressive starts thinking somethings true, no truth will every sway them from the lie.
Being ‘left’ is being pro 2A, fumbled it there at the end.
I’m seeing a lot more libs understanding what 2A is really for. Preventing success of things like January 6.
Citizens will not stop a coup attempt using guns. You’re watching too many movies. Be realistic.
Idk it seems like everytime a trained, well-equipped military goes up against a bunch of farmers the military loses so I’m not sure I agree with you.
Right, when was the last time that happened on us soil again?
Also, do you actually see Americans as some kind of guerilleros? With current obesity numbers, there’s no hiding in improvised shelters for most. Let alone simple but crucial things like “running”. Did you think of how the country isn’t totally unknown to the military, negating one of the major advantages for defenders in past such situations?
By all means, do not agree with me. You can’t convince me you actually believe us citizens have a fighting chance against the fucking us military, though. Absolutely delusional!
Students of history disagree. Remember when they told us we’d smash Vietnam in a month? Remember when they said the same thing about Iraq? You can come up with all the “but it’s different this time!” you like, I agree we probably won’t come to an agreement on this, have a nice day.
Why are you ignoring my questions? I don’t remember anybody saying “Iraqis are probably too fat and complacent for guerilla tactics”. “Students of history” won’t disagree that there’s a huge difference between the 1970s us army fighting guerilleros in Vietnam and the 21st century us army fighting a bunch of tacticool idiots on us soil.
Did you notice that your only argument is “nah, it wouldn’t be different” without any substantiation?
Why are you ignoring my questions?
I don’t owe you an argument. I’ve stated my position and you’ve stated yours. Have a nice Friday.
WDYM, it’s not like the structural problems of capitalism would favor fascists if we provide a market for buying guns. It’s not like fascists are the ones with more money and time from owning a business or something. I would totally show up to defend my country from a coup as long as it coincides with my work break. /s
Missing is destroying any hope of owning a house
Do you think that allowing millions of illegals into the country puts no pressure on the housing market?
Imagine being so fed up with propaganda to the point of believing that immigrants are causing the housing market prices to go to the moon, completely ignoring the companies, trust funds and banks essentially repeating 2008 all over again, but slightly different, buying houses and apartments as “safe investment”
Please correct me if I’m wrong, and IANAL, but my understanding is that to own land (which would contain a house), in a country, you need to have a contract with the government where the land is, thereby identifying yourself as a foreigner.
It would seem that if this insane claim was actually a problem, where foreign persons were buying homes and then living in them, illegally in the USA for an extended period of time, that such a problem would be easy to solve?
“This home has been occupied by a Spanish speaking family, and it’s owned by a Mexican citizen” would be a good reason for border services to go knock on the door and be like, who the hell are you people and do you have the legal right to be in the country?
IDK, but it feels like a problem that would fix itself.
Also, most illegal immigrants are fleeing their country with little more than the clothes on their back, nevermind enough cash to buy a house. I’m sure some rich people can do this but are they really the problem? If they want to live in the country and spend their wealth here, why would we want to stop them?
The whole argument is nonsensical to me.
Even if everything you say is true, where does this leave us in ~20 years when all of the children born here, who are now citizens, enter the housing market? Or the illegals who are granted citizenship which includes Dreamers plus any future actions?
I feel like illegal immigrants is less of a problem than you think it is.
But you’re talking about the effects that would happen over multiple generations, all of whom come from essentially poverty conditions.
I am unable to count the number of people who became middle class from a poverty class family, because I’m not aware that it has ever happened. So any children of illegal immigration, who were born in the country who is now a citizen would probably fall into the poorest rentals and communities, which isn’t capable of home ownership.
I’m middle class and I had to pair up with another family to break the cycle of violence that is renting. I’m 40 and I’ll be 65 by the time we pay off the mortgage, at which time any savings from the mortgage is likely going to need to be fed into surviving, because inflation will have likely spiked the cost of everything to the point where we need that money just to buy food. I understand that’s anecdotal, though I have seen others with similar stories. The only people I know of that are doing okay, bought a house in, or directly after college when the average price of a home was half of what it is now.
So if you ask me if these people are raising house prices, my answer is no, because the vast majority of them are impoverished. Those that are not, can afford the time, cost, and effort to go through the proper immigration process, and they become citizens.
Simply: rich/middle class foreigners are immigrating legally. Poor immigrants are coming over illegally with nothing, and given how ruthless our society is, they will not escape poverty in our lifetimes, and likely not in the lifetimes of our children, or their children. By the time they “become a problem” for the housing market, they will be 3rd or 4th generation citizens at a minimum, using their meager generational wealth to finally hoist themselves out of poverty.
deleted by creator
That’s not what I asked. It’s a complex issue. Nobody is feeding into propaganda but conversely you seem to have your heels dug in and are not open to discussion.
Do you think that making immigration so difficult so that you create an underclass of workers below your citizenry you can domestically super-exploit for super-profits is causing housing issues?
I think we need immigration and I support it. We need to fix immigration, but not allow hundreds of thousands of unvetted persons flood across the boarder, untracked, into the country because it’s politically correct.
What does “politically correct” mean? A correct take?
I think the impact from illegal immigration is a fraction of a fraction of the impact from letting VC ‘invest’ in housing.
Those millions of illegals sure are forming companies that buy up all the houses and sell or rent them at 10x the price
If capitalism worked, then those workers would be a flood of cheap labor that could be used to build cheap housing (among other things).
preach it fam
Is anyone on Lemmy worried about socialism?
Who is this for?
The choir. This is preaching to the choir.
Fuckin’ A right.
Som… the american dream.
in USA*
In most places under the American empire’s control to varying degrees.*
so only usa?, look at europe, even in brazil we have so much shit but nothing like that, and we are usa garden
Well as long as we’ll have guns then things can be turned around…
Lol, as if their Wal Mart rifles are going to help them against reaper drones.
The USA loses to people less armed than the USA all the time.
But it would be an easy war of attrition no? How many died/almost died because Texas couldn’t handle a lil iced? How long could those states last without resources from outside? How much of their materials are usable raw?
Do the “much guns” states actually have a decent bit of knowledgeable people? Being able to shoot a gun is fine and all but a war is far more than that.
The biggest worry would probably be the ones already in the military who could/would easily sabotage any efforts. And yes, drones are easily beating rifles when it comes to depleting each other’s resources.
I know fuck-all about guns and war but my armchair is warmed up.
The US won all nearly all their engagements in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The difference was the lack of public support to keep those wars and occupations going.
You would think that the public wouldn’t support a war the US wages on the public.
When half the people want it, it will.
This is it.
People keep insisting that the populace would win a war of populace against state… maybe it would, I don’t know and it’s not the problem.
The problem is a war of half the populace against the state and the other half of the populace. Fascism is carried into power by popular demand, it’s not like one day they just appear on the levers of power and have to put up with a revolting population. They will have been put there by the population, and it will be the better armed half of the population.
The war on drugs has entered the chat
It can be done with guns or it can be done without. Can is the magic word here, and guns are optional.
You’re gonna need a nuke, big guy. You aren’t taking on the American military with your lil pea shooter.
