To be clear, I am only talking about people like the average working class Trump voter. The ones who just got caught by misinformation, and just haven’t been able to find a way out. Trump and all his mates are terrible people, and should be held accountable.
The average voter is another thing. My attitude is that I got lucky, and found out that Trump and his mates are terrible, instead of getting sucked down a rabbit hole of supporting them. Knowing how fascism works, I don’t know if I’d be able to reliably land on the right side if fascism happened in my home country. And if I don’t believe I could reliably spot fascism, I’m not comfortable acting like those who support Trump could have.
This isn’t a discussion of “just be a good person”. I know plenty of amazing, caring people who believe they’re doing the right thing.
This whole idea of “I can’t say is reliably avoid fascism” is based on this, the school that became fascist for a week. As bad of an experiment that was from that teacher, it was an effective way of teaching how people fall for what should be obviously a bad thing.
You highlight an important point: the fascists are fascists because their primitive lizard brain responds to hear and insecurity with tribalism.
And we have the same lizard brain.
Point being: fascists aren’t stupid or inferior, and we need to constantly be on guard to reject the same instincts in ourselves.
Having said that: they are adults, and they should be held responsible for their own adult decisions.
Whether they acted out of malice or ignorance, they bear the same moral culpability for the consequences of their vote. They have a social responsibility to ensure they are informed and vote accordingly; everyone should be able to spot fascism and authoritarianism when they see it.
Fuck anyone who actually voted for trump. Period. Edit: it’s on them to try to redeem themselves
Some of the folk who swallowed the propaganda and want to erase folk like me from the planet may have been conned, but however they got there, their goal is still to hurt other people.
I blame them completely. Voters are not children. You’re responsible for your own actions.
Have you seen them at the polls? You’re right, they aren’t children. Individually i think voters are smart, but as a collective they are dumber than children. If you consider that it’s no surprise that Google searches like “did Biden drop out” spiked on election day.
If a grown adult with the mental acuity of a child assaults you and tries to rob you, you are entirely justified in fighting them off and holding them morally culpable for their actions.
If said manchild instead publically advocates for and votes to have someone else do this to you, they are just as morally culpable.
Idiocy may be an explanation, but it is no excuse.
Trump has been trash since the 1980s. He was a garbage president in 2016. If you “fell for it” in 2020 and/or 2024, you’re dumber than dirt.
Who else should we blame? Trump won the popular vote, so it was those who voted for him who caused this. Whether they’re dumb as shit or not doesn’t change that.
100%
It’s not like we can even blame it on the fire hose of misinformation the Trump campaign will never be able to stop themselves from shitting out
Trump has already been president. He failed so hard that he lost by over 7 million votes after just 4 years and 2 impeachments while in office.
Then he was found liable for rape and had to pay millions, then he was convicted on 34 felony counts of fraud, and still he was still on the hook for federal indictments for his attempt to overthrow the government in 2020 in which not only did many participants serve prison time for, some died in the process of it. Many of Trump’s own officers were also convicted. Giuliani has been sued into bankruptcy and has been disbarred for what Trump asked him to do.
Yeah. That seems like a good idea to give that guy power again. /s
Trump objectively represents the worst that America has to offer to itself and the world.
He lied his ass off to get his first term, no one learned from that.
I genuinely felt sorry for his victims that first time.
Then he lied his ass off for a 2nd term.
This time, I feel like people deserve what they get this time.
To me, they’re just as culpable as Trump this time. Every horrible thing that happens this time have zero hesitation to remind people that they voted for it.
Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney are why Trump got re-elected a 2nd term. That and the annoying blue MAGA that thought genocide was perfectly acceptable when trying to beat a fascist in an election. This is their fault.
“The left turned me into a fascist waah”
Put a sock in it already. As bad as you may find the Democrats, they are nowhere near magat level insanity.Not trying to start an argument, just trying to make a point because I’ve been seeing “Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney” around a lot lately.
What makes you immune to the propaganda? When I see name calling and throwing blame, it’s the exact same shit we see from Republicans. It just seems childish when we could have had actual debates. I’m not saying Kamala did a good job. She was a trash candidate.
And I’m saying this not to be a dick, honestly. I’m just saying maybe you’ve been drinking the Kool-Aid this whole time. The only difference is that it’s blue raspberry instead of cherry. Maybe give that a thought the next time you call a single dad struggling to buy food for his kids a fascist to his face. Because that’s the easiest way to get them to do the exact opposite of what you want.
I’d love to hear your thoughts about how the genocide in Gaza was all made up
Had a long winded comment written out but decided against sending it because like I said, I’m not trying to start an argument. I’m just trying to raise some points.
But just so you know I don’t think the genocide in Gaza is made up. And i think its fucked up that the US decided it doesn’t matter because Israel is our ally. But at the end of the day I’d vote against fascism any day of the week. Because that’s how you get even more genocide. And an abstained vote is a vote for your enemy.
It’s a bad argument to blame Biden for what Netanyahu did. Israel is weird subject no American president can be even remotely critical of without getting burned politically
Biden witholding bombs from Israel would hurt his reelection just as much as it would by giving them.
The blowback Biden got for holding up a single arms shipment to Isreal was SEVERE. Not only did it not go far enough to appease those like myself who are appalled at what Netanyahu has not only done but will continue doing, it pissed off every religious nut who thinks that Israel is beyond reproach.
It was a major shot in the foot from the entire country for even attempting to do anything about it.
But not even as major as him just getting old and messing up a debate.
That’s really all it took, that and corporate greed by price gouging Americans and those same corporations calling it inflation and blaming Biden for it.
My biggest gripe with Biden is with Ukraine. It was our chance to shine on the world stage, but Biden always played a day late and a dollar short getting arms shipments to Ukraine.
That and touting those arms shipments primarily by their dollar value, which Trump was quick to seize upon and easily convince morons that Ukraine is just a money pit.
The dollar amount should have been the last thing he mentioned, not the first.
Even without Trump it made people who can’t even afford to put a decent meal on the table for their families wonder why they have it so hard while we’re “shipping billions of dollars to Ukraine”
It took Biden way too long to attempt to explain that the vast majority of the money stays here in the US and is used to create jobs replacing the old arms and ammunition that we’re sending to Ukraine from our own stockpile.
Trump has no substance, but excellent messaging.
Biden has nothing but substance, but terrible messaging.
Yeah you’re just not working with facts. Kamala lost because she didn’t break with Biden on Gaza:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
So why you do the typical… “Genocide is complicated. Biden was actually incredibly young & dynamic, did excellent in the debate” BS maybe you should start looking into facts instead of cult speak
Red genocide is SO different from blue genocide isn’t it?
There are no excuses.
A lot.
I know there’s a proportion that were simply ignorant and tuned out of politics… but most Trump voters did so over the very loud objections of trans relatives or while openly embracing the nativism.
Lastly, I think that Harris did a terrible job advocating for her election and she owns a fair portion of the blame as well.
Trump wasn’t an unknown this time. He attempted to subvert our election process and he’s a convicted rapist. He openly embraced corruption during his last term and is already shilling crypto bullshit.
Trump voters are terrible selfish people - end of story.
They ate the propaganda. I can’t really say its their fault, propaganda is why they did what they did, the fault lies with those who promoted far-right propaganda.
How much do you blame Germans? As in the ones from 1940s?
We might not have started killing people yet but the signs are here, for anyone who cares to know their history. We had a Nazi salute at the inauguration for Christ sake.
Yeah. It’s shocking that your friends and neighbors are party to this. It was to many Germans too.
Given the way AIPAC and the ADL control everything, while advocating lebensraum for their master race… I don’t blame the Germans one hair versus anyone else… the “victim” has become the abuser, raping aid doctors to death in their death camps…
There is literally no difference between a Trump supporter/voter and a Nazi
If we’re talking the average working class voter, I hold a great amount of sympathy for them. I really do understand where they’re coming from.
The Democrats are corrupt as hell and aren’t doing a damn thing for the American people. Pre-Trump Republicans are corrupt as hell and aren’t doing a damn thing for the American people. The country is legitimately falling apart and there’s no one to turn to.
Here comes this guy out of nowhere who’s never been in politics and thus not beholden to their corrupt schemes. He’s promising to tear down the whole damn system that isn’t working for the average American. He recognizes and acknowledges the plight of working class America. He’s claiming that it needs to break completely before it can be repaired.
This is the reasoning behind my little brother supporting Trump. He’s so desperate for real change that he’s willing to overlook a lot of Trump’s bad behaviors. To my brother, Trump is a useful wrecking ball, a bulldozer coming to forcefully wipe away everything wrong with politics.
Of course, Trump has no real intentions of fixing anything. He’s just there to loot the government and shield himself from the law. All of the right wing supporters, politicians, preachers, and business execs are just stepping stones.
Agreed, this particular type of person I can at least feel empathy for. Feeling the system has failed and deciding that someone who will blow it all up is better than someone who will maintain the status quo.
I feel that people like your brother are in the minority though and most of Trump’s voters like his policies, and so I completely blame them, but that’s just my gut feeling, I don’t have stats or studies.
Sorry bud, but your brother is a Nazi. Voting for fascism just to change things? My ass. If a fascist tells you he’s a fascist, believe him. And fascists don’t want change. They want power.
I’m pretty torn on this to be honest.
On the one hand, propaganda is a hell of a drug especially if you’re already sympathetic to the ideas of one party or another. You want to be able to agree with them or you’re left realizing you have no options at all. It’s a similar thing to those on the left being “forced” to support Democrats even if they basically loath the current party. If not for them then they have absolutely nothing, no hope of any representation at all.
On the other hand, how many times can you be confronted with outrageous situations and such a large, essentially global, consensus that “your team” is just straight up wrong before you realize you’re supporting actual bad people? You’re making a choice to support people doing actual bad things, but again, based on the propaganda you might never believe bad things are actually bad, or are even really happening.
I’ve had many many arguments with my father and I’ve come to realize he absolutely will not accept information that is not what he already wanted to hear. Fox is good when it says “Trump good”, fox is bad when they say “Trump did something wrong.” I pleaded with him to at the very least stop watching the fox primetime peanut gallery where they lie with impunity, that he would be better served watching Fox journalists like (at the time) Shepard Smith. His response was “Smith is too opinionated, I prefer Hannity.” … Sean Fucking Hannity, the guy who’s show is literally an opinion show. He just wants confirmation bias. When a Republican committee release a document it’s gospel, when a Democrat lead committee release something it’s fake news lies.
I blame them collectively for supporting fascists, but I can’t really blame an individual human for being a stubborn ignorant human. It’s our nature to be thick headed. Some way more than others.
“No one is the villain of their own story.” My stubborness is that I choose to believe this quote is true. 99% of people believe they’re doing the right thing, it’s why we even have the cliche of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
